CDodkin Posted November 5 Share #21 Posted November 5 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 hours ago, mboerma said: I do not notice any difference in the shutter lag between the M EV1 and the. M11-D. Same, immediate response. Which is what you'd expect given that it's essentially the same camera Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 5 Posted November 5 Hi CDodkin, Take a look here Shutter lag or viewfinder lag or both. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mboerma Posted November 5 Share #22 Posted November 5 5 hours ago, CDodkin said: Which is what you'd expect given that it's essentially the same camera Yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwidad Posted November 6 Share #23 Posted November 6 17 hours ago, lct said: With EVF i see the moving subject entering and leaving the peaking zone so that i can focus and shoot at the right moment. Never bothered me in 10+ years and the reason is perhaps that when you shoot you don't register the image the way the reality is but as, and when, it is seen by the camera. This way you don't get the tail when you shoot the eyes of the cat so to speak. Just an attempt to explain the lack of actual issue for me. Kinda got a chuckle on this if I read it right. “the reality is” and “as seen by the camera” it’s called lag! when an object enters the frame and I press the shutter button, it’s half gone on the image I get. This is lag. Predicting this seems to be what your describing but it doesn’t make it go away and frankly is nigh impossible since with EVF you only know it’s entering the frame when you see it and then you would have needed to have already pressed the shutter release. am I misunderstanding you here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjddd Posted November 6 Share #24 Posted November 6 Leica even does not use 120 refresh rate EVF for its first milestone camera ， maybe available for M EV2…… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 6 Share #25 Posted November 6 2 hours ago, kiwidad said: Kinda got a chuckle on this if I read it right. “the reality is” and “as seen by the camera” it’s called lag! when an object enters the frame and I press the shutter button, it’s half gone on the image I get. This is lag. Predicting this seems to be what your describing but it doesn’t make it go away and frankly is nigh impossible since with EVF you only know it’s entering the frame when you see it and then you would have needed to have already pressed the shutter release. am I misunderstanding you here? I'm not sure to understand you but i'm just a pragmatic guy. When it works it works and it does for me. i'm just trying to explain my practice in case it would be useful for somebody. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbyshire Man Posted November 6 Share #26 Posted November 6 3 hours ago, kiwidad said: Kinda got a chuckle on this if I read it right. “the reality is” and “as seen by the camera” it’s called lag! when an object enters the frame and I press the shutter button, it’s half gone on the image I get. This is lag. Predicting this seems to be what your describing but it doesn’t make it go away and frankly is nigh impossible since with EVF you only know it’s entering the frame when you see it and then you would have needed to have already pressed the shutter release. am I misunderstanding you here? This is like any SLR in a way, you only know what you’ve got when it enters the frame. That’s what you’ve reproduced with an EVF. The fact it’s late due to processing delay doesn’t matter, you get what’s in the frame when you press the shutter button, what’s happened in the real world is immaterial, like taking a screen shot from a recorded YouTube video, the fact that the youtuber put the M11D down 12 months ago and is currently holding a X2D mk2 makes no difference to what you capture, you’ve captured the scene ‘as it is’. What is an issue however is the shutter lag between shutter press and capture. According to the red dot USA figures this is very short but Leica (I heard here) sources say up to 120ms. Personally I think 0.12 seconds is an eternity and not even slightly acceptable! It certainly feels more like 0.1s than 25ms on my m11p, m11d, m11m. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 6 Share #27 Posted November 6 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) @lct's experience being what it is, I can't attempt to argue with them. They appear to be saying that as long as you shoot only according to what you see in the EVF, then the camera will record the scene in the EVF, with no lag. My experience with other Leica EVF cameras is different (I don't have the M-EV1). The EVF always shows a scene slightly later than what you see with a M with OVF - it's just an electronic, signal processing lag, creating a demosaiced low res viewable image from the raw sensor data. Furthermore, the camera does not record the view on the EVF: it only records the real-time scene from the sensor after the shutter button has been pressed, at which point it closes the shutter, opens to take an exposure, then closes it again, then reopens to restart liveview. I have checked this multiple times (M240+Viso, TL2, CL, SL, SL2-S, SL3-S, Q2, Q3 43) because I want to know the EVF lag of every camera I use - they all have one. It's easy to do: stand at the side of the road and, looking through the EVF, press the shutter release as a car goes past the edge of a building opposite, then repeat the process but looking over the top of the camera. In my experience the directly viewed shot has the car closer to the edge of the building than the one shot through the EVF. This is just how EVF cameras work; it's a built-in defect to go along with the advantages of an EVF. The solution is to learn to anticipate - as best you can. Or stick to an OVF. Edited November 6 by LocalHero1953 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekindangen Posted November 6 Author Share #28 Posted November 6 6 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: “… The EVF always shows a scene slightly later than what you see with a M with OVF - it's just an electronic, signal processing lag, creating a demosaiced low res viewable image from the raw sensor data. “ I guess it is inherent in the technology. In time it will probably improve but not eliminated. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted November 6 Share #29 Posted November 6 1 hour ago, ekindangen said: I guess it is inherent in the technology. In time it will probably improve but not eliminated. I measure M-EV1's LCD lag at about 70ms. Human reaction time is about 250ms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJohn Posted November 6 Share #30 Posted November 6 I have never experienced the lag - or not consciously recognized. So even if it is measurable, I highly doubt it is that much. The 70ms are more slightly to be true, but I haven't really put a number to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted November 6 Share #31 Posted November 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, BJohn said: I have never experienced the lag - or not consciously recognized. So even if it is measurable, I highly doubt it is that much. The 70ms are more slightly to be true, but I haven't really put a number to it. It is easy to measure. Run a stopwatch on your iPad and record a video (smartphone) with the rear LCD and the stopwatch screen visible. Play back the video and check the time difference between the iPad and the rear LCD. I do not know whether the delay in the EVF is the same. P.S.: Remeasuring shows between 50ms and 70ms. Edited November 6 by SrMi 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 6 Share #32 Posted November 6 25 minutes ago, SrMi said: It is easy to measure. Run a stopwatch on your iPad and record a video (smartphone) with the rear LCD and the stopwatch screen visible. Play back the video and check the time difference between the iPad and the rear LCD. I do not know whether the delay in the EVF is the same. P.S.: Remeasuring shows between 50ms and 70ms. Interesting. As a different, less precise test, but representing a practical scenario, I compared shooting a digital stopwatch on my Macbook through the EVF and by over-the-camera direct view with my SL3-S (I have no M EV1). Manual focus and exposure (ISO 800, 1/1000s). I pressed the shutter the moment I saw a specific round number of seconds (e.g. 15 secs, 20 secs, 55 secs). I allowed myself no anticipation. My shots from a direct view had a lag of around 250 millisecs. My shots through the EVF had a lag of around 400 millisecs. The former matches your figure, the latter implies a longer EVF/LCD lag. I also tried the LCD and got similar results. I don't doubt your results, but I don't know why the discrepancy: perhaps a different camera, perhaps a human response to looking at a screen rather than directly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 6 Share #33 Posted November 6 (edited) And yet.... I repeated @SrMi's test and obtained similar results to him, but a 80-90ms lag in the case of the SL3-S LCD. I suspect there's a human factor adding a bit more lag when using the EVF/LCD. Edited November 6 by LocalHero1953 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted November 6 Share #34 Posted November 6 Just now, LocalHero1953 said: And yet.... I repeated @SrMi's test and obtained similar results to him, but a 80-90ms lag in the case of the SL3-S LCD. 120 or 60Hz refresh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 6 Share #35 Posted November 6 5 minutes ago, SrMi said: 120 or 60Hz refresh? 60 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJohn Posted November 6 Share #36 Posted November 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, SrMi said: It is easy to measure. Run a stopwatch on your iPad and record a video (smartphone) with the rear LCD and the stopwatch screen visible. Play back the video and check the time difference between the iPad and the rear LCD. I do not know whether the delay in the EVF is the same. P.S.: Remeasuring shows between 50ms and 70ms. I just did a few tests. M11P is similar to M1EV. For the M1EV, EVF is similar to LCD and about 60ms. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I also took a few images with both, M11P and M1EV and ignoring my human reaction, just looking at the LCD (through my smartphone), seeing the switch to black (image is produced), listening to the shutter sound and my click, there is actually 0 delay I can measure, maybe 10ms to 20ms. But even in slow motion, there is nothing I can track. For the M1EV, when using the EVF directly, the delay is about 70ms, but of course that is due to the use of the EVF if I am ignoring my "measuring" device and just trying to press the shutter as exactly is I possible can to a specific timing and comparing afterwards. Thanks @SrMi for guiding me to a gentle nerd hour and by that reassuring my already existing suspicion. There is no real "meaningful" delay, anything else is just gut feeling. Edited November 6 by BJohn 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I also took a few images with both, M11P and M1EV and ignoring my human reaction, just looking at the LCD (through my smartphone), seeing the switch to black (image is produced), listening to the shutter sound and my click, there is actually 0 delay I can measure, maybe 10ms to 20ms. But even in slow motion, there is nothing I can track. For the M1EV, when using the EVF directly, the delay is about 70ms, but of course that is due to the use of the EVF if I am ignoring my "measuring" device and just trying to press the shutter as exactly is I possible can to a specific timing and comparing afterwards. Thanks @SrMi for guiding me to a gentle nerd hour and by that reassuring my already existing suspicion. There is no real "meaningful" delay, anything else is just gut feeling. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/425231-shutter-lag-or-viewfinder-lag-or-both/?do=findComment&comment=5889757'>More sharing options...
Jean-Michel Posted November 6 Share #37 Posted November 6 A Canadian Loonie's worth: There is always a lag between pressing the shutter button and the exposure being made. The least amount of lag is with a rangefinder's mechanical shutter: press the button and, in older 'amateur' cameras the leaf shutter would open and close; or in an M type camera, the focal plane shutter curtain or blades would open for the exposure and close pretty much instantly. Same minuscule lag with a large format camera and lens with a leaf shutter. With an SLR, or dSLR, there are a number of time consuming actions: press the shutter button, the mirror flips up, the lens aperture closes down to the selected one, the focal plane shutter curtain or blades open and close, and the mirror flips back down. It all happens in blink of the eye, but it is not instantaneous. With a M-P(240), which only has a mechanical shutter, if you use LV or the EVF-2, you press the shutter button, the focal plane blades close, then they open and close to make the exposure, and then re-open to view the next shot. The delay is quite short, but real. With the M-EV1, or any mirrorless camera, if you use the mechanical shutter, then what I just described for the M9240) applies. If you use the electronic shutter the electronics read the exposure row by row, and no matter how short of an exposure time is chosen the whole read-out process takes some time – in the case of my M-P(240 or SL2, that time is about 1/30 second. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnguyen Posted Tuesday at 07:38 PM Share #38 Posted Tuesday at 07:38 PM On 11/4/2025 at 10:14 PM, ekindangen said: For the lagging issue, try a simple subject such as walking person. You will see that if you press the shutter based on image in the viewfinder, you will consistently miss the gait as the person steps forward. You can't really capture the "decisive moment". More like capturing AFTER the decisive moment. Get m11p instead . It has optical viewfinder duh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDodkin Posted Wednesday at 04:03 AM Share #39 Posted Wednesday at 04:03 AM On 11/5/2025 at 11:44 PM, Derbyshire Man said: This is like any SLR in a way, you only know what you’ve got when it enters the frame. That’s what you’ve reproduced with an EVF. That's why I use my other eye to view what's going on outside of the camera's FOV, and use that to time objects moving into frame - it's extremely effective. Like this shot from the weekend with the M EV1 - I timing the release as I saw the 2nd cyclist approaching the camera's FOV with my open eye. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/425231-shutter-lag-or-viewfinder-lag-or-both/?do=findComment&comment=5892087'>More sharing options...
CDodkin Posted Wednesday at 04:09 AM Share #40 Posted Wednesday at 04:09 AM 8 hours ago, cnguyen said: Get m11p instead . It has optical viewfinder duh. Just use your spare eye - you have two! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now