Shutter lag or viewfinder lag or both

[ekindangen]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi fellow Leica fans. I’ve been lucky enough to get a first allocation of the production EV1 and have put the camera to some real life scenario during my last overseas trip. I mostly take street photo, landscape and occassionaly portrait of my family. There has been many users sharing their opinions, many are good, some are not. But I have not come across issues about shutter lag.

In regards to shooting moving subjects I noticed there’s substantial lag from what we see in viewfinder vs image taken. This could be one of several factors, lag in EV, lag in shutter actuation, or both. 

Also, under certain artificial light, the viewfinder flickers to a point where it is difficult to focus.

Are other users experiencing similar issues or these are isolated to my copy. I hope Leica will fix these issues in future Fw iterations.

[rfunnell]

I have come across the artificial light flickering on several occasions.

I may have found a work around by turning the AUTO setting for viewfinder and/or rear screen to viewfinder only ?

Hasn't occurred since to test however.

No lag issues I have noticed after using the camera numerous times over the week I have owned it.

More than happy with this camera.

 

 

[lct]

4 hours ago, ekindangen said:

[...] under certain artificial light, the viewfinder flickers to a point where it is difficult to focus [...]

I did experience this too when receiving my copy a couple days ago. My dealer could not replicate the issue with its stock bodies so we wondered if this could be related to LEDs in my artificial lighting. My dealer was prepared to send me a replacement body but he suggested i try mine during the weekend. Which i did but since then i could not replicate the issue so i'm keeping my body for now. Edit: As for the lag, i don't find it significantly different to that of the Visoflex2 on my M11 but i did not find it annoying enough to test it further so far.

Edited November 4 by lct

[jaapv]

This is completely normal. Discontinuous LED light can create a stroboscopic effect with an EVF at certain refresh rates. Google and you’ll find large numbers of entries for all brands. The remedy found here: change the refresh rate by switching off Auto is an effective one. 
If possible change the LED bulbs for balanced ones. 
Your dealer should have known this. 

[Wipeout]

I’ve noticed the same flickering under LED lighting, and have also seen it occur in bright daylight. It’s not related to highlight clipping, which I had disabled. The effect makes focusing and judging exposure quite difficult, and I’ve managed to capture the behaviour on video.

 

I’ve not experienced any shutter lag, but there is noticeable delay when using the zoom-in focus function, especially in low light or when the lens is stopped down. This makes the camera almost unusable in some circumstances. My SL2 with an M-adapter using the EVF does not exhibit this behaviour.

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

he remedy found here: change the refresh rate by switching off Auto is an effective one. 

I thought the M-EV1 refresh rate was fixed at 60?

[LocalHero1953]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

There's a difference between EVF lag and shutter lag, as the OP notes. You can check which is the case by shooting an easy-to-frame moving scene without looking through the EVF e.g. a car moving past the edge of a building. The difference between where the car was when you pressed the shutter and where it is in the image is the shutter (+human reflex) lag. Then do the same while looking through the EVF, which will show the total lag (shutter lag + EVF lag).

EVFs slow up in low light, so lag increases.

[Derbyshire Man]

I always imagine it like recording a screen grab on a video playing on a computer, it doesn't matter whether you're at live action or 5 seconds or 1 minute delayed from the live action, you are still capturing the image as it was. With the camera what you see with you left eye is not what is being recorded but what you see with your right eye is, in real time plus shutter lag, it's just you are looking back into history very slightly!

[jaapv]

42 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I thought the M-EV1 refresh rate was fixed at 60?

Apparently switching off auto varies it enough to get rid oof the flickering. 

[BJohn]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

Apparently switching off auto varies it enough to get rid oof the flickering. 

I am also a bit lost here, could you navigate us in the menu to switch what exactly to off?

[lct]

1 minute ago, BJohn said:

I am also a bit lost here, could you navigate us in the menu to switch what exactly to off?

Page 4, Display Settings, EVF<>LCD -> Auto

[BJohn]

2 hours ago, lct said:

Page 4, Display Settings, EVF<>LCD -> Auto

Ah thanks, okay that one does not change a thing for me. I can now also replicate that sort of "lag" but it is more a visible adjustment of the metering, if that makes sense. So if I move to a bright background and then away from it to some darker areas, there I can see the "unsmooth" change.

[lct]

I thought you had flickering issues sorry. Do you see too much digital noise in the dark areas?

[MRJohn]

I also have flickering in artificial light, it is a bit distracting. I set it to EVF only, so this is unrelated to Auto. Lag is there but no different than my M10 with a Visoflex. The M EVF is a piece of old internal hardware. They had built the M11 so it could accommodate the EVF with minimal extra effort. Probably should have introduced it on an M12 backbone, not on 4-5 yo electronics originating with the M11. The tool has advantages in certain situations and disadvantages in others. I hope their software engineers can write some new code which makes it faster and provide more manual focusing guide options (like with the Nikon). 

[mboerma]

It is not so much the EVF, but the sensor. I tried it when I saw this happening with my EV1. And took a photo. You can see the banding, flickering. I then tried it with my M11-D. I could see it in the Fotos app on my phone. In my case these are LED lights (Philips HUE GU10 to be specific). 

Edited November 4 by mboerma
added more precise info.

[ekindangen]

For the lagging issue, try a simple subject such as walking person. You will see that if you press the shutter based on image in the viewfinder, you will consistently miss the gait as the person steps forward. You can't really capture the "decisive moment". More like capturing AFTER the decisive moment.

[ekindangen]

21 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

There's a difference between EVF lag and shutter lag, as the OP notes. You can check which is the case by shooting an easy-to-frame moving scene without looking through the EVF e.g. a car moving past the edge of a building. The difference between where the car was when you pressed the shutter and where it is in the image is the shutter (+human reflex) lag. Then do the same while looking through the EVF, which will show the total lag (shutter lag + EVF lag).

EVFs slow up in low light, so lag increases.

Exactly what I'm trying to say. With EV1, the camera is subject to two lags. One from the EV seeing the world and another one from the inherent lag of the shutter. Somehow I just feel this is more pronounced in EV1 vs in M11 varieties.

[carlosgavina]

3 hours ago, ekindangen said:

Exactly what I'm trying to say. With EV1, the camera is subject to two lags. One from the EV seeing the world and another one from the inherent lag of the shutter. Somehow I just feel this is more pronounced in EV1 vs in M11 varieties.

The time between seeing the "moment" you want to capture, pressing the shutter, and the resulting image, there's a noticeable lag. That is not present on the M11/M10 — without visoflex — that feels immediate. It's the nature of the camera and the tech used, since, and I know im over simplifying, this is a "M11 with a embed sharper visoflex".

[lct]

With EVF i see the moving subject entering and leaving the peaking zone so that i can focus and shoot at the right moment. Never bothered me in 10+ years and the reason is perhaps that when you shoot you don't register the image the way the reality is but as, and when, it is seen by the camera. This way you don't get the tail when you shoot the eyes of the cat so to speak. Just an attempt to explain the lack of actual issue for me.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[mboerma]

I do not notice any difference in the shutter lag between the M EV1 and the. M11-D. Same, immediate response.