250swb Posted October 16 Share #121 Posted October 16 Advertisement (gone after registration) 5 hours ago, tegel said: As time moves on things progress. Just because it was done that way for decades, it doesn’t necessarily mean it is the best/correct/only way. If the technology if today was available then, who’s to say they would have not utilized it to achieve their vision? Digital photography doesn't have to be about the instant gratification of the process, pretty well all the worlds best images are still refined with the photographers skills and artistry in post processing (as they would have been in a darkroom), and if WYSIWYG is an element it's the starting point and not an end in itself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 16 Posted October 16 Hi 250swb, Take a look here Considering a Monochrom Body - Looking for advice. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
fotografr Posted October 16 Share #122 Posted October 16 21 hours ago, tegel said: I did purchase an M10m partly due to these charts. The M11m was quite a bit more than I was willing to spend, and the other monochrom cameras didn’t seem to offer any advantage over the Zf (according to the charts anyway). I’m in the process of deciding if the M10m provides me with a significant advantage over my Zf for B&W. From the discussions here, I probably need to use both more in extreme high ISO situations. Your first hurdles will more likely be deciding if you like having a camera that only does b&w, and if rangefinder shooting is right for you. It isn't for everyone. Both cameras will probably satisfy you with high ISO results unless you're shooting by candle light. Then it's anybody's guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzajl Posted October 16 Share #123 Posted October 16 There are a lot of complicated issues being tossed in the pot with this thread still. Surely the answer to the question of considering a mono camera is "yes, absolutely do it". Stop wondering and get on with it. The experience seems to have a wide ranging affect on people from deep and meaningful to pointless and expensive. There is only one way to find out where you fit. If you don't buy a new M11M, you'll get all your money back if you don't like it and if you do buy a new M11M, money obviously isn't a restrictive issue. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 16 Share #124 Posted October 16 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dazzajl said: There are a lot of complicated issues being tossed in the pot with this thread still. Surely the answer to the question of considering a mono camera is "yes, absolutely do it". Stop wondering and get on with it. The experience seems to have a wide ranging affect on people from deep and meaningful to pointless and expensive. There is only one way to find out where you fit. If you don't buy a new M11M, you'll get all your money back if you don't like it and if you do buy a new M11M, money obviously isn't a restrictive issue. He stated previously (post #116) that he has already purchased the M10M. Fortunately, it's not a high risk decision because that camera is still sought after and very easy to sell on the used market. Edited October 16 by fotografr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted October 16 Share #125 Posted October 16 Did we cover the Bayer filter here already? A monochrom cam has a higher resolution as it does not have the Bayer filter? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 16 Share #126 Posted October 16 2 hours ago, mpauliks said: Did we cover the Bayer filter here already? A monochrom cam has a higher resolution as it does not have the Bayer filter? Not yet, as far as I've read, but it's true because a mono sensor doesn't have to do colour reconstruction, or demosaicing, to create the final image. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted October 18 Share #127 Posted October 18 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Here we go with lab and expert tests for noise. Source is chip.de. First image M11, 2nd M246. Look at ISO 6400. To me it seems, 246 is superior to M11 in regard of noise. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited October 18 by mpauliks Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/423424-considering-a-monochrom-body-looking-for-advice/?do=findComment&comment=5877602'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 18 Share #128 Posted October 18 Yes but you must consider the higher base ISO as there is no light loss by the Bayer filter. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 18 Share #129 Posted October 18 (edited) 3 hours ago, jaapv said: Yes but you must consider the higher base ISO as there is no light loss by the Bayer filter. This appears to contradict that notion. https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/87528/how-much-light-and-resolution-is-lost-to-color-filter-arrays Edited October 18 by fotografr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 18 Share #130 Posted October 18 3 hours ago, mpauliks said: Here we go with lab and expert tests for noise. Source is chip.de. First image M11, 2nd M246. Look at ISO 6400. To me it seems, 246 is superior to M11 in regard of noise. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Is this the colour version M11 or the M11M? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted October 18 Share #131 Posted October 18 vor 19 Minuten schrieb fotografr: Is this the colour version M11 or the M11M? M11 not M11M. Elsewise the compare would not make sense IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 18 Share #132 Posted October 18 1 hour ago, mpauliks said: M11 not M11M. Elsewise the compare would not make sense IMO. Thanks. It's hard for me to interpret the charts because I don't speak German. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpauliks Posted October 18 Share #133 Posted October 18 (edited) @fotografrI see. So, if I get them correct M11 has 6.4 Visual Noise at ISO 6400 and M246 has only 3.05, which is better. I guess ca. 1 EV but not sure please. Gemini AI: "While there is no standard formula to directly convert a Visual Noise (VN) value into an Exposure Value (EV), the difference in noise performance between the Leica M11 and the Leica M246 can be expressed in practical photographic terms. Based on the provided values, the Leica M246 shows approximately a 1 EV, or "one-stop," advantage in noise performance over the M11 at ISO 6400." Edited October 18 by mpauliks 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 18 Share #134 Posted October 18 4 hours ago, fotografr said: This appears to contradict that notion. https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/87528/how-much-light-and-resolution-is-lost-to-color-filter-arrays Not really, it compares to the human eye, which is a RGB device and not with a monochrome sensor. In essence they argue that the Bayer filter behaves like any other RGB situation which is more or less true. With a monochrome sensor you simply remove a colour filter and gain the filter factor, exactly like removing a colour filter from the lens. As for the resolution loss that is not due to the Bayer filter as such as every pixel is active so the luminance resolution will be identical to the sensor output. However further on the interpolation step in the processing pipeline will use groups of pixels to create the colour which brings down the colour resolution. The net result is a combined resolution loss compared to the original sensor output. As a monochrome camera obviously skips the interpolation step it will transmit the full sensor resolution. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegel Posted October 28 Author Share #135 Posted October 28 I appreciate the in depth discussions here. As someone new to Leica, I have found them to be very helpful and informative. I’ve decided to keep the M10m as I’ve really enjoyed using it and the photos it creates are amazing. I did some high ISO comparisons (>20000) with the Zf and I do see a significant difference in the noise with the M10m being much more pleasing. For color, I’ve considered getting one of the M10 variants, but for now I’ll contune to use one of my Nikons with an M-Z adaptor. I also added a 24/3.8 Super Elmar, as it seems like a good companion for the M10m. My other lenses 35 and 50 Crons along with a VM 90/2.8 APO. Thanks for all the great info on this site. I’m looking forward to posting some images! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted November 1 Share #136 Posted November 1 On 10/28/2025 at 7:48 AM, tegel said: I appreciate the in depth discussions here. As someone new to Leica, I have found them to be very helpful and informative. I’ve decided to keep the M10m as I’ve really enjoyed using it and the photos it creates are amazing. I'm wondering if you've posted any of your M10M images here yet and, if so, where. I think we'd be interested in seeing your work. I just looked at your profile and saw you're in Ann Arbor. One of my favorite people on the planet lives there (the young lady below). Her husband is an anaesthesiologist at a hospital there. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/423424-considering-a-monochrom-body-looking-for-advice/?do=findComment&comment=5887077'>More sharing options...
PeterD Posted November 3 Share #137 Posted November 3 On 8/1/2025 at 3:09 PM, espelt said: Nice. It's similar to the many presets. One press of a button - and the image looks like... You can try it out. And see if you can handle it. If you don't like Photoshop or find it too complicated - certainly a way. Mine doesn't anymore. I like the Monochrom mainly because it gives me the feeling of getting close to the old, almost grainless large-format prints. Wonderful, almost infinite tonal values. If I want really visible grain, which I also find very appealing depending on the subject, then I use the M2 or the screw-mount Leica with a Tri-X or HP 5 and plenty of Rodinal. You can certainly simulate it. SilverEffex does a pretty good job. But it's not the same as taking the shot with a 90-year-old screw-mount Leica. It's simply unbeatable.... I find myself in a similar position to @Tegel but in my case it's Fujis. I also have an M3 and a IIIf and I must say that nothing, simulation or otherwise beat feeling of using them with Tr-X (shame they don't make BW400CN anymore 🙂 ) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegel Posted November 6 Author Share #138 Posted November 6 On 11/1/2025 at 1:08 PM, fotografr said: I'm wondering if you've posted any of your M10M images here yet and, if so, where. I think we'd be interested in seeing your work. I've mostly been experimenting with different lenses and lighting conditions for street photography around town, but don't have much to show yet for my efforts. I'll post a few in the Street Photography forum. On 11/1/2025 at 1:08 PM, fotografr said: I just looked at your profile and saw you're in Ann Arbor. One of my favorite people on the planet lives there (the young lady below). Her husband is an anaesthesiologist at a hospital there. Wonderful photo! I don't take many portraits, but it is something I'd like to try to do more of as I encounter interesting people on the street and in my travels. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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