M11 Firmware Updates and File Numbering

[Paul Timlett]

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I bought a used M11-P earlier this year. I also have an M8 and an M10. The file number on my M8 begins L....... I changed the M10 file numbers to begin M10..... So I changed the M11 file numbers to begin M11.....

Since I bought the M11-P there have been two firmware updates. Leica recommends that you reset the camera after doing a firmware update. For the first one I checked the option to preserve the file numbering but for the second one I didn't notice that option and forgot. So my file numbers have reset - they still begin M11..... but the subsequent numbers have been reset.

So at some point I will start to see duplicate file numbers once the new numbering catches up with the numbers from when I first changed the format to M11..... 

Does anyone have any clever ideas as to what I can do to avoid duplicate file numbers?

[Eoin]

As far as I know if you insert a blank formatted card and take an image, then remove the card and change the file name on your PC or Mac from M1100001 to M110100, then re insert the card into your camera, the next image you take should be M110101.

[Paul Timlett]

4 minutes ago, Eoin said:

As far as I know if you insert a blank formatted card and take an image, then remove the card and change the file name on your PC or Mac from M1100001 to M110100, then re insert the card into your camera, the next image you take should be M110101.

That’s a thought, thanks. 

[marchyman]

Another thought.... Are duplicate file numbers/names such a bad thing?  Do you care that you have an image named M1100100.DNG in two different folders?

I tend to use image numbers as an imperfect proxy for number of images I've shot with that camera.  I've done something similar to what @Eoin suggested to keep the numbers somewhat in sequence.  But my current library has lots of images from lots of cameras and certainly contains duplicate file names.  That has never been a problem because the images are in different folders, probably contain different keywords, and certainly contain different metadata.

[Paul Timlett]

4 hours ago, marchyman said:

Another thought.... Are duplicate file numbers/names such a bad thing?  Do you care that you have an image named M1100100.DNG in two different folders?

I tend to use image numbers as an imperfect proxy for number of images I've shot with that camera.  I've done something similar to what @Eoin suggested to keep the numbers somewhat in sequence.  But my current library has lots of images from lots of cameras and certainly contains duplicate file names.  That has never been a problem because the images are in different folders, probably contain different keywords, and certainly contain different metadata.

That’s a great point and it is something I’ve wondered about. I was trying to envisage a scenario where such a conflict might cause a problem. 

[J S H]

It's easy to setup a template in your editing program (Lr, in my case) to create a unique file number at import. I usually just use the Date+Camera+Orig file number and it is sufficient. You could also add the time, if you wanted to be REALLY thorough.

So for instance, my saved file would be named 2025-07-04 M11-L1100100. I use this strategy across several systems while shooting Timelapse footage with duplicate cameras in the course of my work and it has never created a file that wasn't uniquely identifiable. If I am using two of the same camera models on the same day, I will then add the Time into the filename template, but this would be an uncommon scenario/requirement for most people. 

Edited July 4 by J S H
typo

[kiwidad]

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On 7/3/2025 at 7:09 AM, Eoin said:

As far as I know if you insert a blank formatted card and take an image, then remove the card and change the file name on your PC or Mac from M1100001 to M110100, then re insert the card into your camera, the next image you take should be M110101.

Yeah doubt this is correct. The numbering isn’t derived from what is “seen” on a card. If it was how would the camera know the next number to use on a new card and having swapped cards back into the camera and not seen this behavior to boot

[Eoin]

15 hours ago, kiwidad said:

Yeah doubt this is correct. The numbering isn’t derived from what is “seen” on a card. If it was how would the camera know the next number to use on a new card and having swapped cards back into the camera and not seen this behavior to boot

I think you need to check it for yourself... Yeah!.

[Corius]

18 hours ago, kiwidad said:

Yeah doubt this is correct. The numbering isn’t derived from what is “seen” on a card. If it was how would the camera know the next number to use on a new card and having swapped cards back into the camera and not seen this behavior to boot

Looks like @Eoin is quite correct.

Page 81 of the User Guide:

"

Notes

• When using memory cards that were not formatted with this camera, the file numbering will begin with 0001 again. Should the memory card already contain a file with a higher number, then numbering will be continued from that number.

"

[Paul Timlett]

13 minutes ago, Corius said:

Looks like @Eoin is quite correct.

Page 81 of the User Guide:

"

Notes

• When using memory cards that were not formatted with this camera, the file numbering will begin with 0001 again. Should the memory card already contain a file with a higher number, then numbering will be continued from that number.

"

I’m now wondering if that’s what I did, and that I didn’t allow the firmware update to reset the file numbers after all. Maybe I used an SD card from my M10 🤔

[lct]

19 hours ago, kiwidad said:

[...] The numbering isn’t derived from what is “seen” on a card [...]

Looks like it works this way, provided the number entered with the Mac (no experience with PC) is higher than that of the last file of the card. Don't ask me why though 😎

[kiwidad]

2 hours ago, Corius said:

Looks like @Eoin is quite correct.

Page 81 of the User Guide:

"

Notes

• When using memory cards that were not formatted with this camera, the file numbering will begin with 0001 again. Should the memory card already contain a file with a higher number, then numbering will be continued from that number.

"

And the manual also says you should format memory cards before use does it not?so according to page 13 of the manual this will never happen if you follow leicas guidelines.

Generally, it is not necessary to format (initialize) memory cards

that have been previously used. Formatting will, however, be

necessary if you insert an unformatted memory card or a card

that was formatted in another device (e.g. a computer) for the first

time.

 

[kiwidad]

2 hours ago, Corius said:

Looks like @Eoin is quite correct.

Page 81 of the User Guide:

"

Notes

• When using memory cards that were not formatted with this camera, the file numbering will begin with 0001 again. Should the memory card already contain a file with a higher number, then numbering will be continued from that number.

"

So I just put a brand new card, never formatted in my m11, in my m11 and shot. Numbering continued from the number of the last image shot on the previous card. So leica’s manual is already wrong. 
I just took the card formatted in m11, shot a pic. Renamed file using card reader on my iPad and put it back in m11. The numbering was not reset in any way.

No idea how you getting the result your getting but it is incorrect, as is page 81 of the manual.

what version of the firmware are you using? Based on changed card recommendation Leica have changed some card access code in recent versions it appears!

I suggest you try this yourself and see if you get the result the manual and EON offer or what I see.

 

 

[Eoin]

Does it even dawn on you that perhaps you, or your understanding of the manual, or even your method may be the issue?. 

I'm happy the OP has found the answer... I'm out!

[Robert Ardinger]

My knowledge is from using the Q camera so these observations may or may not apply.

An issue might be that the first three numbers of the Leica file number system are the numbers for the folders and not the same type of a sequential image number system that other brands of cameras use.

L100XXXX would have up to 9,999 images with those first three numbers (100) then should (have not gotten there yet to see this change) change to L101XXXX for the next 9,999 images.  (i.e. L1009999 should then advance to L1010001) This should allow for nearly 9 million different file numbers per camera before starting over.  (sort of makes sense).

I originally thought the entire 8 digit (letter and 7 numbers) were the sequential file numbers.  On Nikons (at least mine) that is the case for the numbers. The folder numbers are not part of the file number so after 9,999 images the file numbers could be duplicated (they will be in different sequentially numbered folders on a card)

I have 2 digital Leicas and changed the letter on one to avoid duplicate file numbers (L100XXXX on one and Q100XXXX on the other).

The only time (so far) that I have had the camera fully reset the file numbering system is when the camera is brand new (makes sense) or is reset (either by choice or more typically the usual camera reset after a firmware update).  Basically is appears that any time the camera is going to start up with the Leica animation (then telling you to select language, etc) if there is not an image file from that camera with the file number from the last image taken, on the SD card, the last 4 numbers of the next picture taken seem to always be 0001.

I have not had enough exposures made to know if the folder number (first 3 numbers) would change back to 100 if the camera had already gone past that number.  The camera I learned this lesson on was the one with the letter "L" so also do not know if a previously selected different letter would default back to "L".

I did see that after I had inadvertently "reset" the number sequence after a firmware update (did not see an option to preserve the file numbering during firmware update, might have missed it or it is not on the Q) and took several hundred more images, that if I took a newly formatted card, took a picture which would have the "reset" sequence number and, on my computer, replaced that image with the last image taken before the firmware update, the camera continued with that older, pre-reset sequence.

If the camera is not reset/firmware updated, I can format cards in camera and even with have no image files on the cards, the file numbers will still be sequential (will not reset).  

Not sure what happens if a firmware update is done via the Fotos app (never tried this method) but suspect this is less of an issue since there would be no temptation to use a "clean", newly formatted SD card (and then forget to either take a picture or add the file from the last image) and the SD card in the camera would likely have a picture on it or maybe the app has a way of understanding the camera's file number sequence.

[Paul Timlett]

6 hours ago, Robert Ardinger said:

My knowledge is from using the Q camera so these observations may or may not apply.

An issue might be that the first three numbers of the Leica file number system are the numbers for the folders and not the same type of a sequential image number system that other brands of cameras use.

L100XXXX would have up to 9,999 images with those first three numbers (100) then should (have not gotten there yet to see this change) change to L101XXXX for the next 9,999 images.  (i.e. L1009999 should then advance to L1010001) This should allow for nearly 9 million different file numbers per camera before starting over.  (sort of makes sense).

I originally thought the entire 8 digit (letter and 7 numbers) were the sequential file numbers.  On Nikons (at least mine) that is the case for the numbers. The folder numbers are not part of the file number so after 9,999 images the file numbers could be duplicated (they will be in different sequentially numbered folders on a card)

I have 2 digital Leicas and changed the letter on one to avoid duplicate file numbers (L100XXXX on one and Q100XXXX on the other).

The only time (so far) that I have had the camera fully reset the file numbering system is when the camera is brand new (makes sense) or is reset (either by choice or more typically the usual camera reset after a firmware update).  Basically is appears that any time the camera is going to start up with the Leica animation (then telling you to select language, etc) if there is not an image file from that camera with the file number from the last image taken, on the SD card, the last 4 numbers of the next picture taken seem to always be 0001.

I have not had enough exposures made to know if the folder number (first 3 numbers) would change back to 100 if the camera had already gone past that number.  The camera I learned this lesson on was the one with the letter "L" so also do not know if a previously selected different letter would default back to "L".

I did see that after I had inadvertently "reset" the number sequence after a firmware update (did not see an option to preserve the file numbering during firmware update, might have missed it or it is not on the Q) and took several hundred more images, that if I took a newly formatted card, took a picture which would have the "reset" sequence number and, on my computer, replaced that image with the last image taken before the firmware update, the camera continued with that older, pre-reset sequence.

If the camera is not reset/firmware updated, I can format cards in camera and even with have no image files on the cards, the file numbers will still be sequential (will not reset).  

Not sure what happens if a firmware update is done via the Fotos app (never tried this method) but suspect this is less of an issue since there would be no temptation to use a "clean", newly formatted SD card (and then forget to either take a picture or add the file from the last image) and the SD card in the camera would likely have a picture on it or maybe the app has a way of understanding the camera's file number sequence.

Many thanks Robert. What you describe is, I’m fairly sure, what has happened with my M11. I think I might just take the approach suggested by one contributor and just ignore it! As he said - does it really matter if there are duplicate file numbers if the files are in different folders on my Mac (which they will be)? Like you I haven’t reached that point yet. 

[Steve Ash]

How about changing the file naming during import to the computer. I utilize the exif data and name them like follows:

year-month-day_Event_Camera_lens_4digit number

eg

2025-06-12-Rügen-LEICA M10-Summilux-M 1-1.4-75-0128

 

[Paul Timlett]

1 hour ago, Steve Ash said:

How about changing the file naming during import to the computer. I utilize the exif data and name them like follows:

year-month-day_Event_Camera_lens_4digit number

eg

2025-06-12-Rügen-LEICA M10-Summilux-M 1-1.4-75-0128

 

What do you do if you are downloading, say, 100 images? Do you download and rename each one individually?

[frame-it]

16 minutes ago, Paul Timlett said:

individually?

https://mrrsoftware.com/namechanger/

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Hallo,

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[Steve Ash]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb Paul Timlett:

What do you do if you are downloading, say, 100 images? Do you download and rename each one individually?

It goes in a batch. All I enter is the Event name, the rest goes automatically. Pretty easy.

you can also change any batch of images later