Cropping and perspective -once again (split thread)

[chris_tribble]

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I know that comparisons are odious - but I really do prefer the images on this Q3 43 thread over those from the 28mm lens.  It's a view of the world I really appreciate.

[S Maclean]

18 minutes ago, chris_tribble said:

I know that comparisons are odious - but I really do prefer the images on this Q3 43 thread over those from the 28mm lens.  It's a view of the world I really appreciate.

I had a similar reaction some time ago. I had the Q2 and loved it, but was somehow resistant to the 28mm view ofthe world.  The 43 just resonates with me.  This said, check Paul Reid's photography. particularly the Q2 Monochrom.  His images, along with some other outstanding images you can find at the LUI gallery (which is very democratic) and around the web really make me consider the 28 as a very versatile camera. Perhaps more versatile than the 43.

Would I give upthe 43 for the 28? no. 43 reamins an organic view to my eye.  But I certainly am considering getting the 28 back.

At the end of the day, one or the other, the Q is, without doubt, an incredible and fun camera.  It has the benefits of the SL system, the ease of the M,  Incredible limitations compared to both of those systems but, along with those, the freedom of a light-weight fixed lens camera that delivers.

[S Maclean]

2 hours ago, keithlaban.co.uk said:

LUI gallery?

Sorry, meant LFI Gallery.  Thank you.

[fotografr]

On 6/25/2025 at 11:17 AM, chris_tribble said:

I know that comparisons are odious - but I really do prefer the images on this Q3 43 thread over those from the 28mm lens.  It's a view of the world I really appreciate.

Agree. I've gone through the whole Q progression. Q, Q2, Q2M, Q3 and now Q3 43. The field of view with the Q3 43 feels much more natural and comfortable to me than the 28mm versions. 

[jaapv]

On 6/25/2025 at 6:17 PM, chris_tribble said:

I know that comparisons are odious - but I really do prefer the images on this Q3 43 thread over those from the 28mm lens.  It's a view of the world I really appreciate.

Which really means that many owners do not use the camera as intended; a cropping zoom compact, and keep stuck on 28 mm AOV. The Q43 is the same for longer focal lengths but again, many treat it like 43 mm AOV only. 

[keithlaban.co.uk]

54 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Which really means that many owners do not use the camera as intended; a cropping zoom compact, and keep stuck on 28 mm AOV. The Q43 is the same for longer focal lengths but again, many treat it like 43 mm AOV only. 

I've no interest in the cropping modes but crop where and when necessary in post.

[fotografr]

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1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Which really means that many owners do not use the camera as intended; a cropping zoom compact, and keep stuck on 28 mm AOV. The Q43 is the same for longer focal lengths but again, many treat it like 43 mm AOV only. 

Using the crop feature of a Q28 to achieve a 90mm focal length is nowhere near the same thing visually as shooting with a 90mm lens. While I did occasionally use the crop feature to tighten up a composition it never did satisfy me visually.

[jaapv]

55 minutes ago, fotografr said:

Using the crop feature of a Q28 to achieve a 90mm focal length is nowhere near the same thing visually as shooting with a 90mm lens. While I did occasionally use the crop feature to tighten up a composition it never did satisfy me visually.

Only if you need controlled DOF for your composition. The perspective is identical This has been extensively discussed and illustrated with examples  on this forum. 

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, keithlaban.co.uk said:

I've no interest in the cropping modes but crop where and when necessary in post.

OK but that really does not make a difference for the general idea.. In general I prefer cropping in the computer like you, even if I avoided the Q series. 

[fotografr]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

Only if you need controlled DOF for your composition. The perspective is identical This has been extensively discussed and illustrated with examples  on this forum. 

The compression factor is lost with a crop versus native 90mm. This has also been extensively discussed.

[jaapv]

10 hours ago, fotografr said:

The compression factor is lost with a crop versus native 90mm. This has also been extensively discussed.

No that is completely incorrect .

It only gets lost if you change the position of the camera relative to the subject. The compression AKA perspective is identical. Try it for yourself. Put the camera on a tripod and take two shots. One with 28 mm and one with 90. Crop the 28 to ninety. The only thing that changes is the DOF which is not surprising as you did not move the camera  nor the objects in the image around and only changed the angle of view.
The only way to change perspective is to move the camera relative to the subject, not by using another focal length or cropping. If that were so, you could take a print and change the compression with scissors. 

https://visualwilderness.com/equipment/understanding-focal-length-perspective-in-photography

https://www.photoreview.com.au/tips/shooting/perspective-and-focal-length/

 

 

 

With apologies for the nth rerun of this set

 

28 mm

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70 mm

 

28 mm cropped

[chris_tribble]

@jaapv  this is interesting - and I largely agree.  However, it does miss the point re what a stellar lens the 43 Apo is.  Shot at native FL I prefer it to the 28 on the Q3. For me that was enough of an argument to justify the switch. The fact of more satisfactory cropping (while maintaining a surprising degree of subject / background separation) made it even more compelling. For most of my work 8 just don’t enjoy 28. If I need it I’ll use the M10-r I’ve held onto. For now, the Q3 43 does the job for me. In this world there are those who will always choose window rather than aisle. Maybe it’s the same for 43 vs 28. I know where I prefer to sit!! 🙂

Edited June 28 by chris_tribble

[jaapv]

Of course, lens preference is another thing , but misunderstanding basic photographic principles ( no matter how prevalent in this case) is another, especially as it is Leica’s rationale behind the Q series. 

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, chris_tribble said:

@jaapv  this is interesting - and I largely agree.  

Hopefully more than just largely agree, as your thread title specifies perspective and cropping, which is exactly as Jaap describes.  Perspective, i.e., the relationship between near and far objects, only changes by changing subject to camera position, not by changing focal length or by cropping.

[jaapv]

Not Chris’ title. I split the thread off 

[IkarusJohn]

On 6/28/2025 at 4:03 AM, jaapv said:

It only gets lost if you change the position of the camera relative to the subject … The only thing that changes is the DOF which is not surprising as you did not move the camera  nor the objects in the image around and only changed the angle of view.

Selective quote - true, as far as it goes.

However, there’s a loss of resolution with cropping.  Also, the character of my 28 is very different from my 75 (I don’t have a 90).  More critically, if I want to take a 75mm shot, I will move, changing perspective.  I never think of a crop factor when I’m taking a picture, for example with my X2D and 38V lens.  The position of the camera is almost always dictated by the lens I’m using.

So, yes stay in the same place, take all your images with your 28mm and crop to the 50, 75 or 90mm image you should have taken, or better use an optical zoom, or best of all, put the appropriate lens on your camera and move to where the image works best for that lens.  Leica interestingly makes a variety of lenses with different focal lengths, and you can move your feet.

Cropping, I can do on my iPhone.

[S Maclean]

19 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Selective quote - true, as far as it goes.

However, there’s a loss of resolution with cropping.  Also, the character of my 28 is very different from my 75 (I don’t have a 90).  More critically, if I want to take a 75mm shot, I will move, changing perspective.  I never think of a crop factor when I’m taking a picture, for example with my X2D and 38V lens.  The position of the camera is almost always dictated by the lens I’m using.

So, yes stay in the same place, take all your images with your 28mm and crop to the 50, 75 or 90mm image you should have taken, or better use an optical zoom, or best of all, put the appropriate lens on your camera and move to where the image works best for that lens.  Leica interestingly makes a variety of lenses with different focal lengths, and you can move your feet.

Cropping, I can do on my iPhone.

You sound angry….

[adan]

RE: cropping, perspective and all that.....

......a quote from the great John Hurt. (P.S. this tribute is from Spaceballs (1987); it helps to be familiar with Ridley Scott's Alien from 1979)

 

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Selective quote - true, as far as it goes.

However, there’s a loss of resolution with cropping.  Also, the character of my 28 is very different from my 75 (I don’t have a 90).  More critically, if I want to take a 75mm shot, I will move, changing perspective.  I never think of a crop factor when I’m taking a picture, for example with my X2D and 38V lens.  The position of the camera is almost always dictated by the lens I’m using.

So, yes stay in the same place, take all your images with your 28mm and crop to the 50, 75 or 90mm image you should have taken, or better use an optical zoom, or best of all, put the appropriate lens on your camera and move to where the image works best for that lens.  Leica interestingly makes a variety of lenses with different focal lengths, and you can move your feet.

Cropping, I can do on my iPhone.

That is exactly the reason that Leica gave the Q3 a high MP count….  You repeat my points precisely trying to make it sound like a rebuttal. Please explain how to fit Leica’s variety of lenses on a Q. 
What is a Hasselblad doing in a Q thread?  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[Barralad]

“So, yes stay in the same place, take all your images with your 28mm and crop to the 50, 75 or 90mm image you should have taken, or better use an optical zoom, or best of all, put the appropriate lens on your camera and move to where the image works best for that lens.  Leica interestingly makes a variety of lenses with different focal lengths, and you can move your feet.”

Pretty sure everyone here is fully aware of this. Indeed, my guess is that people buy into the Q system to avoid the scenario you’ve painted. Speaking personally, I didn’t want multiple lenses on a more expensive body. The Q system seems perfect for its intended use. Not sure what point you’re trying to make by saying that an alternative type of system is available? Everyone on this forum is already cognizant of that fact.