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iiif vs. iiig question


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I have a question about the viewfinders between the iiif & iiig.

 

I understand and have seen the basic differences in size, frame lines or not, etc... between the two.

 

Now what is confusing is that all of the iiig cameras which I have seen, have a viewfinder which is not as bright as my iiif. They are also yellow tinted in color vs. the bright clean more blue tint of my iiif.

 

Is this normal? Is it possible to have the iiig finder as bright as my iiif?

 

I have received several different answers from people that I'm not sure really know enough about the older cameras. One person told me it just needed a CLA. Another told me that due to the extra glass and the frame line projection in the iiig, the different design is just not as bright as a iiif.

 

Help, as I am debating over a iiig. However, if the view finder is truly duller and more yellow than my iiif then the debate is easily over.

 

Best,

 

Ray

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I don't know anything about the viewfinder difference, but I do know that you pay a huge difference in price between the IIIf and IIIg. Having used and loved the IIIf, and finding it to be a great picture taker, I don't see the benefit of the IIIg for day to day use. For collecting, the IIIg is theoretically a better investment, with the caution that who knows which way collectibles will turn in the future.

Good luck

John W

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I had a IIIG years ago (now sold) and remember well that the VF was surely less bright than the one of my IIIc (now I have a IIIf, no direct comparision, but I suppose it's like the IIIc in brightness); do not remember the yellow aspect you mention, but the inferior brightness didn't surprise me: the presence of frames surely has added optical elements that cause a loss of luminosity. I think that, unless it's really a problem, is better no to think of a CLA just for this : costly and delicate operation (disassemblying/reassemblying the VF optics is surely a very subtle work) and anyway, in my op., it CANNOT be as bright as IIIf's. The M series finder is brighter than IIIG's (I had, at the time, direct comparision with my M4) but it's a completely new design, with a different management of frames.

And the above post is right... for collecting purposes IIIG is very interesting, but for use I'd say IIIf isbetter, unless, of course, you use a lot a 90mm...;)

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Not long ago I was in the same decision making process. I finally went for a IIIf AND a IIIc (late postwar) both with 50mm lenses (an Elmar and a Summitar), for the same price of a clean IIIg. Both the IIIc and the IIIf viewfinders were brighter than the IIIg's

 

Ed

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Ray,

 

I own and use both a IIIf and a IIIg. The finder of my IIIf, which I inherited from my father and which I had CLAed recently, is indeed crystal clear and has no color tint at all. This is not surprising, as the IIIf's finder is really of very simple construction, no projected brightlines, no rangefinder window, just two or maybe three pieces of glass.

 

The finder of my IIIg, also CLAed recently, has that yellow tint you described. To the best of my knowledge, the yellow tint comes from a layer of Canada balsam used to cement two glass elements (prisms) in the finder together. These prisms are apparently needed to project the brightline frames into the main optical path of the finder. In the old days, they used this stuff called Canada balsam to cement optical elements together, and Canada balsam tends to get yellowish over time. When the IIIg was originally made, this yellow tint was probably absent, or at least present to a much lesser degree.

 

That said, the finder of my IIIg is very clear and quite bright. Due to the yellow tint it may seem a little less bright than that of the IIIf, but I still hugely prefer the IIIg's finder over the IIIf's. The IIIf's finder, while crystal clear, is so small that I can barely use it (there was a reason why Leitz at the time sold so many of their external viewfinders). In contrast, the IIIg's finder, while not as good as that of an M3, is close to the latter and offers a magnification of I believe 0.7, which is what you get from regular M's today. Also, the brightlines make composing an image so much easier, and they are parallax corrected (the IIIf does not have any kind of parallax correction).

 

Best,

 

Andy

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Ray,

 

I have a IIIf and a IIIg.

 

I think the advantages that Andy mentions of the IIIg viewfinder outweigh the brighter IIIf viewfinder. I never really paid attention to the difference until I saw this post and I compared my IIIf and my IIIg side by side.

 

I also don't think the price differential between a IIIf and a IIIg is as great when you factor in the price of external viewfinders that are needed for the IIIf to get the same functionality as a IIIg. Not to mention the convenience. Although convenience is probably not a good argument when using old bottom loading cameras!

 

Even when I use a 35mm lens, I don't usually use an external viewfinder on the IIIg. The edges of its viewfinder are wider than 50. Not sure what they really equate to.

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Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

My favorite focal lengths on film are 50 & 90. I have a 90 Elmar in beautiful condition that makes wonderful photos which hardly ever gets used on my iiif because of the need for the external finder which also requires you to set the distance or it is really off for parallax.

 

I really do enjoy the iiif but as mentioned above, often use the Leica external viewfinder for the 50. I hate having to change finders and set distance if I change to the 90.

 

This is what was leading me to consider the iiig. If I stay with the iiif, I'm afraid that I will be selling the 90 and only using the 90 focal length on my Ms. That would leave the iiif with a 50 always attached which is not a bad thing.

 

I liked the VF size, view, and frame lines in the iiig much better, but the duller finder bothered me (plus the yellow tint).

 

I'm still at odds over this one. I don't mind the higher price of the iiig. What I'm really trying to decide is if the usability will be enhanced for me or not. The trade off is a larger finder, with corrected framelines vs. a smaller finder with no frame lines that is brighter.

 

What to do? Still thinking.

 

I also have an M7, M8, and D300, but this little barnack is something that I really enjoy. I love the precision mechanical nature, size, and how it makes me take photos. Being forced to slow down, think about the light, and set everything manually with no meter does make me a better photographer. The number of keepers per roll is amazingly high with the little iiif.

 

Best,

 

Ray

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One other thing.

 

Do I remember correctly that the iiig has modern speeds vs. what my iiif RD has?

 

Thanks,

 

Ray

 

Yes, all IIIGs have the modern time scale in geometric progression... and this is useful expecially if you have some standard meter... and if you like to use that little gem that is Elmar 90 (love it a lot, I have 7 of them all different one from the other...), ok, forget the problem of brightness of VF and take IT ! (or... IIIf with Elmar 5 fixed + IIIG with Elmar 9 fixed...:) )

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I have to admit Luigi's solution is the more appalling, and makes me with to take a step forward.... I can leave the Summaron 35 on the IIIc, the Elmar 50 on the IIIf and begin a desperate search for a clean IIIg where to mount the Elmar 90 (I have a delightful late "all chrome" one)

 

ed a.

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I have to admit Luigi's solution is the more appalling, and makes me with to take a step forward.... I can leave the Summaron 35 on the IIIc, the Elmar 50 on the IIIf and begin a desperate search for a clean IIIg where to mount the Elmar 90 (I have a delightful late "all chrome" one)

 

ed a.

 

... and the whole combo, imho, is lighter to carry than some zoomed DSLR...:)

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James,

 

You are guilty of severe causing Leica purchases. It is all your fault. My iiif is still here and may just stay.

 

----------------

 

To everyone,

 

I looked at a lot of iiig cameras and actually found one with the viewfinder very bright and with no yellow tint to it. The camera was basically mint cosmetically, but had an issue with the slow speeds. It is on its way DAG for a CLA and repair by the dealer, then I should be able to pick it up in a few weeks.

 

---------------

 

Excitement and anticipation. Once I get it, I'll post a few photos.

 

 

Best,

 

Ray

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Luigi,

 

I do have a late 90 Elmar with the 39mm filter threads. It is going to stay now, since the iiig is coming.

 

However, I do have a question.

 

Do you guys know where to get the leather, to recover the strip on the lens. My lens has been CLA'd by DAG and works great. However, a piece of the leather is cracked off.

 

Best,

 

Ray

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Ray,

 

You know it makes sense! Look forward to hear how you get on with the lllg in practice. It's a camera that has appealed to me as well.

 

I also have a 9cm Elmar with a part of the vulcanite missing. I think the only answer would be to strip the rest off and replace it with a piece from one of the replacement camera leathers - there's been a few links in other threads recently (maybe one of the suppliers could provide an off cut of material rather than buying a whole camera kit). It won't look original although I think there are some coverings that look very similar.

 

Mine is 90% intact so I'll leave it as it is and maybe cover the gap with some black tape.

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Luigi,

 

However, I do have a question.

 

Do you guys know where to get the leather, to recover the strip on the lens. My lens has been CLA'd by DAG and works great. However, a piece of the leather is cracked off.

 

Best,

 

Ray

 

Ray,

 

Camera Leather has just started to offer these strips for the 90mm Elmar and 135mm Hektor: cameraleather.com News and Updates

 

Scroll towards the bottom of the page, just above the picture of the M8....

 

Best,

 

Jan

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