version 2 or 3 - Summilux 50/1.4 pre-ASPH

[brickftl]

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I finally narrowed my search of what 50 I want, and what I want is the Summilux 50/1.4 pre-ASPH. It's rendering wide open makes weak in the knees. Similar to my Summilux 35 steel rim reissue that I love, especially wide open.

In the best of all worlds, I'd like version 3 because it has a min focus distance of .7M as opposed to version 3 which is min focus distance of 1M. But, Ye told me to stay away from version 3, saying: "if the lens is a late production with a retractable hood and E46 filter thread, stay away from the lens. Most of the late production lenses have optical cement deterioration problems. Leica no longer has parts for this lens. We have only seen a few good ones. You need to find an E43 version."

So my questions are: 

1. people who have version 3, have you had problems of cement deterioration (or haze which often is an indicator of that condition). If so, did you get it fixed and if so by whom (Ye and other 3rd party CLA people won't do that repair, so instead it has to go back to Wetzler - I don't even think they do that repair in NJ), and have you had any problems since it was fixed?

2. what do you think about having version 2 min focus distance of 1M? I almost never do portraits. But on a few occasions when I've wanted to do close up with my 35 SRR I've been a bit hampered by its 1M min focus distance, so I wonder if having another lens with the same 1M focus distance would be an issue.

3. I've got the Summicron 50/2 rigid - love it. And I've read it's a bit sharper than the Summilux 50/1.4 pre-ASPH, although from what I've seen, the Summilux is plenty sharp enough for me in the center and I don't care much about edge sharpness. That being the case, is there a good reason I should keep the cron after getting the lux, or should I just sell the cron?

Thanks!

[evikne]

I have the v3 and have not had problems of cement deterioration. I don't even remember hearing about it. I once sent it in to Leica for 6-bit coding and a CLA, then they also calibrated it so that the focus is perfect at f/2.0, and the back focusing from f/2.8 onwards become barely visible. Some people say they have never had problems with back focusing, but I had it on mine.

I've heard that the performance down to 0.7m is much worse than from 1m and up and that this is the reason why they didn't allow the extra near limit earlier. I haven't given this much thought myself. But you might not miss out on much if you buy a v2 instead. The 50mm focal length will still give you a closer view than your 35mm Summilux.

Also consider whether you prefer a short or long focus throw, the v3 is short and v2 is much longer.

[brickftl]

7 minutes ago, evikne said:

I have the v3 and have not had problems of cement deterioration. I don't even remember hearing about it. I once sent it in to Leica for 6-bit coding and a CLA, then they also calibrated it so that the focus is perfect at f/2.0, and the back focusing from f/2.8 onwards become barely visible. Some people say they have never had problems with back focusing, but I had it on mine.

I've heard that the performance down to 0.7m is much worse than from 1m and up and that this is the reason why they didn't allow the extra near limit earlier. I haven't given this much thought myself. But you might not miss out on much if you buy a v2 instead. The 50mm focal length will still give you a closer view than your 35mm Summilux.

Also consider whether you prefer a short or long focus throw, the v3 is short and v2 is much longer.

thanks! that helps make up my mind that I won't be missing much if I get V2 instead of V3. And as far as focus throw, the longer would probably suit me better for deliberative portraits/landscape. Yes the short focus throw would benefit fast moving street shots, but for that I'll be using my Q3 anyway.

And FYI, it was your gorgeous shots with the Summilux 50/1.4 pre-ASPH that got me interested in it in the first place!

[Fred Miranda]

50 minutes ago, evikne said:

I have the v3 and have not had problems of cement deterioration. I don't even remember hearing about it. I once sent it in to Leica for 6-bit coding and a CLA, then they also calibrated it so that the focus is perfect at f/2.0, and the back focusing from f/2.8 onwards become barely visible. Some people say they have never had problems with back focusing, but I had it on mine.

I've heard that the performance down to 0.7m is much worse than from 1m and up and that this is the reason why they didn't allow the extra near limit earlier. I haven't given this much thought myself. But you might not miss out on much if you buy a v2 instead. The 50mm focal length will still give you a closer view than your 35mm Summilux.

Also consider whether you prefer a short or long focus throw, the v3 is short and v2 is much longer.

Same here, no issues with the aluminum black version. My copy is perfectly aligned with the rangefinder at f/1.4.

By the way, I just measured the actual minimum focus distance on my copy, and it is exactly 0.63m (which is almost the rangefinder limit), factoring in Leica's 27.8mm flange distance. I believe the issue with cemented elements started with the production of the black paint Millennium version.

Love your images from the 50/1.4 pre-asph v3!

Edited April 1 by Fred Miranda

[Essummi]

My v3 shows also no problems. The v3 is lighter and the extractable hood convenient. Sometimes the 0.7m min focus is helpful. I like the black, cylindrical version very much. I wish you a good decision.

[costa43]

I have a v3 that had some deterioration of the cement on one of the internal elements. I can confirm that it definitely can be repaired if it happens to anyone. Leica confirmed in the correspondence that it cannot be cleaned but it can be replaced. I sent it to Wetzlar and they quoted me 600 Euro for a replacement element and a CLA. I now have a minty fresh copy although it did take 9 months! 

 

Edited April 1 by costa43

[RobW0]

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I have a black v2 and v3. The v2 is 289g and v3 is 275g. The v2 uses a 43mm filter with a 0.5 thread pitch but can take filters with the more standard 0.75 pitch. The hood for the v2 can have problems fitting over many of the newer filters. The older Leica 43mm slim filter, which has no front threads, works best with the hood. The focus throw is the biggest difference between the two lenses in my opinion. The focus throw of the v3 is much shorter than the v2. The focus throw of the v3 is about the same as the Summicron Rigid you have. I know one goes to 1m and the other 0.7m, but the amount of rotation is about the same. The rotation from infinity to 1m on the v2 is much longer. This can take some getting use to compared to a lot of other lenses. Hope some of this info is helpful. 

[brickftl]

thanks all.

And BTW costa43, I've seen your images as well in the 50/1.4 pre-asph picture thread and have enjoyed them very much.

[brickftl]

21 minutes ago, RobW0 said:

I have a black v2 and v3. The v2 is 289g and v3 is 275g. The v2 uses a 43mm filter with a 0.5 thread pitch but can take filters with the more standard 0.75 pitch. The hood for the v2 can have problems fitting over many of the newer filters. The older Leica 43mm slim filter, which has no front threads, works best with the hood. The focus throw is the biggest difference between the two lenses in my opinion. The focus throw of the v3 is much shorter than the v2. The focus throw of the v3 is about the same as the Summicron Rigid you have. I know one goes to 1m and the other 0.7m, but the amount of rotation is about the same. The rotation from infinity to 1m on the v2 is much longer. This can take some getting use to compared to a lot of other lenses. Hope some of this info is helpful. 

is that weight of the v2 with the hood on?

[RobW0]

7 minutes ago, brickftl said:

is that weight of the v2 with the hood on?

No, the hood adds about 24g. It is made of Al, so is very light. 

[pedaes]

3 hours ago, brickftl said:

In the best of all worlds

Then buy just released 50mm f1.4 

 

[brickftl]

3 minutes ago, pedaes said:

Then buy just released 50mm f1.4 

 

thanks! I've got two issues with the reissue. First it's significantly heavier than the original. Second, reports are indicating that it has a substantially more modern look than the original.  Both are reasons I'll avoid this lens.

[Olaf_ZG]

I recently bought a second hand v3. Couldn’t be more happier. Main reason for the v3 was the mfd and the hood…

[brickftl]

30 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I recently bought a second hand v3. Couldn’t be more happier. Main reason for the v3 was the mfd and the hood…

do you mind me asking how much you paid and where you got it from?

[Crem]

My favorite 50 in the world is the 50:1.4v3 pre-asph thanks to @grahamc recommending it to me a year or two ago (e46 with retractable hood). To make it even more perfect I put a 7Artisans focus ring tab on it (stick on) and it is my daily 50 along with the 35:1.4v2. I never heard of this cement issue until after I bought it. Mine has no separation. Serial number 367xxxx. I had DAG 6 bit code it and fully CLA it. I would like to hear more about the cement issues. I thought the 50:1.4 ASPH was my favorite until I got the v3. The size, weight, focus throw, and character of the v3 pre-asph is the perfect 50 for me on film and digital. As my daily 50, I very much appreciate the 0.7m min focus. It's my biggest complaint with the 35:1.4v2 and Steel Rim Reissue. I tried to get my steel rim reissue modified like @Fred Miranda, but failed to find someone to do the work.

Edited April 2 by Crem

[Crem]

6 hours ago, brickftl said:

thanks! I've got two issues with the reissue. First it's significantly heavier than the original. Second, reports are indicating that it has a substantially more modern look than the original.  Both are reasons I'll avoid this lens.

The reissue lenses should come with big disclaimers clearly stating they are more like modern reinterpretations of old lenses. Not copies. I'm not sure if this is obvious to all the buyers out there unless they really dig into the forums. It's great we have choices, but I agree with you that if you want the vintage rendering you end up having to buy the actual vintage lens. Maybe someday LLL will make a perfect copy of the 50:1.4v3

Edited April 2 by Crem

[Fred Miranda]

15 hours ago, Crem said:

The reissue lenses should come with big disclaimers clearly stating they are more like modern reinterpretations of old lenses. Not copies. I'm not sure if this is obvious to all the buyers out there unless they really dig into the forums. It's great we have choices, but I agree with you that if you want the vintage rendering you end up having to buy the actual vintage lens. Maybe someday LLL will make a perfect copy of the 50:1.4v3

Some re-releases stay closer to the original design than others. For example, the 35mm Summilux Steel Rim is very similar in resolution and rendering to my Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux v2 with the infinity lock (which performs similarly to the original Steel Rim). Both lenses offer the same resolution, with the Steel Rim having only slightly higher contrast and field curvature.

On the other hand, the new Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux pre-ASPH "Classic" re-release is an entirely new design rather than a recreation of the v2, v3, or ASPH optical designs. It sits somewhere in between, blending modern optical characteristics with a more classic aesthetic. The released MTF chart confirms this, and sample images show that its rendering is distinct from v2/v3. Its transitions are smoother, more like the ASPH version, but without the same color error correction. Essentially, it's a fresh optical design housed in a classic-style barrel.

[Olaf_ZG]

19 hours ago, brickftl said:

do you mind me asking how much you paid and where you got it from?

From a photo store in Denmark, via eBay. Around 2300€ including postage.

[costa43]

The v3 is the goldilocks option imo. Smallest, lightest, built in hood, 70cm min focus (even closer in reality) and it has the gentle render wide open that the ASPH lacks, whilst being plenty sharp for my use case stopped down. The reissue’s hybrid design renders nicely wide open judging by some of the images I’ve seen, and the design looks really lovely but it’s over 400 grams, which rules it out for me as an everyday 50mm.

Edited April 2 by costa43

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[Fred Miranda]

4 hours ago, costa43 said:

The v3 is the goldilocks option imo. Smallest, lightest, built in hood, 70cm min focus (even closer in reality) and it has the gentle render wide open that the ASPH lacks, whilst being plenty sharp for my use case stopped down. The reissue’s hybrid design renders nicely wide open judging by some of the images I’ve seen, and the design looks really lovely but it’s over 400 grams, which rules it out for me as an everyday 50mm.

Indeed, I measured its actual minimum focus distance at 0.63m, which is at the limit of rangefinder focusing. Some have mentioned that the Titanium version focuses even closer, but I haven't tested it myself.