Capture One - scanned Black/white negatives

[leica dream]

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I have been using Capture One very successfully to tweak my C41 colour films but now moving to black/white I have some difficulty.

It seems that C1 does not like plain B/W scans, unless I have not found the correct workflow for processing these. While my intention is to work within "as shot" wherever possible I can anticipate there will be some items which need minor adjustment. Searching through C1 tutorials there are plenty which cater for converting digital colour images to b/w then working on them, but I cannot find anything about importing scanned b/w negatives.

Does anyone know a workflow? Is C1/20 capable of handling b/w? Should I use something else - darktable???

Edited January 7 by leica dream

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[Tom R]

Well, playing around with this, one thing I notice: Scans that embed sRGB or AdobeRGB will “play better” with Capture [v. 20] than Scans done with Greyscale (Gray Gamma2.2) ICC profiles. I don’t know which scanner/support software you’re using. I have both VueScan and Silverfast, v9. The “default” options with the Silverfast choose RGB colorspaces whereas VueScan uses Greyscale. I’m sure that these options are configurable in the Preferences panes for these products. 

I don’t use Capture One for anything other than DNGs created by an old Leica M.2 that I sometimes use when I need quick digital captures. I’d be curious to see what others, who most likely use C1 more extensively might contribute to the question.

[Doug A]

I have not used Capture One but my approach first with Lightroom, then briefly with Photopea, and now with Affinity Photo is to scan B&W negatives as if they were color negatives, i.e., produce sRGB scans, and then convert them to monochrome once they are in the editor. 

[marchyman]

I do not know the current state of Capture One, but in the past it did not support grayscale files.  You had to scan to RGB or convert the scanned files to RGB in order to use the app.   There were threads about this on the C1 forum 3 or 4 years ago.

[250swb]

On 1/7/2025 at 7:38 PM, leica dream said:

I have been using Capture One very successfully to tweak my C41 colour films but now moving to black/white I have some difficulty.

It seems that C1 does not like plain B/W scans, unless I have not found the correct workflow for processing these. While my intention is to work within "as shot" wherever possible I can anticipate there will be some items which need minor adjustment. Searching through C1 tutorials there are plenty which cater for converting digital colour images to b/w then working on them, but I cannot find anything about importing scanned b/w negatives.

Does anyone know a workflow? Is C1/20 capable of handling b/w? Should I use something else - darktable???

Any more info, scanner, colour space used, etc.?

Irrespective of Capture One seemingly not being able to work with Greyscale files all scans should be done in Adobe RGB anyway (not sRGB), yes, even B&W. They should then be processed as RGB files and if they eventually have a colour tone desaturate them, don't turn them to Greyscale. This means you've collected as much information as the negative can supply (with you scanner), processed it likewise by throwing nothing away, and save it as a TIFF file, again throwing nothing away. You are then in a position to adjust the brightness, contrast, etc. hopefully knowing you can't do any better so won't have to repeat the exercise. For web use keep your TIFF as a master file and change a copy to 8 bit, resize and convert it to sRGB, and again, yes, even a B&W file, and save your web version as a JPEG.

If you continue having problems with Capture One you can use stand alone negative inversion software like FilmLab which is good for B&W and colour.

Edited January 9 by 250swb

[hansvons]

On 1/7/2025 at 8:38 PM, leica dream said:

Does anyone know a workflow? Is C1/20 capable of handling b/w? Should I use something else - darktable???

C1 is perfectly capable of converting and editing BW images. It’s an essential part of my workflow: dev negs, scan with DSLR (in my case SL2-S, Sigma 70mm Macro, and Valoi Easy35), invert and grade raw files to my liking.

@250swb said everything you should know. Always use RGB files. Later in the process desaturate them. 

In case you DSLR scan your negs, use Scanner for camera profile and Linear for gamma curve.  

[Chris W]

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I have done a ton of Capture One B&W neg editing.

 I used the Valoi Easy 35 scanner and created DNG's with my Sigma FP camera.

Import them to Capture One and reverse the levels (to create a positive image). Then work with Capture One as normal.

Just to be sure there was no colour caste I selected B&W in Capture One colour editor. No problem. I've also used CO's Beyond B&W presets with my neg scans. Also works well.

[leica dream]

Thank you everyone. You all make it sound so straightforward .......... I must be missing something.

I have scanned using my Epson Perfection V700 PHOTO with latest updates. I scanned the same image twice - at 3200 Tiff. Once as 24 bit colour then as 16 bit greyscale.

This produced each as a positive image. Both are clear on screen within C1. Greyscale image looking clear and good, but the colour based image has a greenish colour caste. No need to reverse levels (even if I could) to get positives.

C1 will not let me touch either in any way. I even tried a basic crop which like every other action for both images is greyed out totally.

 

[250swb]

53 minutes ago, leica dream said:

Thank you everyone. You all make it sound so straightforward .......... I must be missing something.

I have scanned using my Epson Perfection V700 PHOTO with latest updates. I scanned the same image twice - at 3200 Tiff. Once as 24 bit colour then as 16 bit greyscale.

This produced each as a positive image. Both are clear on screen within C1. Greyscale image looking clear and good, but the colour based image has a greenish colour caste. No need to reverse levels (even if I could) to get positives.

C1 will not let me touch either in any way. I even tried a basic crop which like every other action for both images is greyed out totally.

 

I have no idea what is happening, but if you scan and save your RGB TIFF files into a folder you should be able to then open them in any software.

[leica dream]

Yes. That is what I do and the images open successfully in C1 but all actions thereafter are greyed out and it will not let me adjust anything.

I raised a support ticket at C1 a week ago and no response from them.

[leica dream]

I have been making some progress, but it still seems rather strange. I have been digging around the web and found something saying C1 does not process TIFF images. I re-scanned as previously but delivering JPEG.

The virgin scans show a perfect greyscale image but a green caste colour image. Moving to C1, it accepts the colour image for adjustments prohibiting the greyscale image. In fact the screen image in C1 has a small pencil crossed out in the bottom right corner.

How sad that the almost perfect greyscale version is not allowed to be manipulated in any way, but work has to be done to "correct" the colour version back to the quality of the greyscale. I think as closure for this thread I shall continue to use C1 for digital colour shots but look elsewhere for essential corrections to scanned black & white negatives.

[Tom R]

28 minutes ago, leica dream said:

I have been making some progress, but it still seems rather strange. I have been digging around the web and found something saying C1 does not process TIFF images. I re-scanned as previously but delivering JPEG.

The virgin scans show a perfect greyscale image but a green caste colour image. Moving to C1, it accepts the colour image for adjustments prohibiting the greyscale image. In fact the screen image in C1 has a small pencil crossed out in the bottom right corner.

How sad that the almost perfect greyscale version is not allowed to be manipulated in any way, but work has to be done to "correct" the colour version back to the quality of the greyscale. I think as closure for this thread I shall continue to use C1 for digital colour shots but look elsewhere for essential corrections to scanned black & white negatives.

Which is one of the many reasons that I stopped upgrading C1 at v20, which I keep around to edit the occasional  images created on an old M8.2. A majority of the images that interest me are created on film. Upon processing and scanning, I use Affinity 2 to ensure a 3:2 aspect ratio and to remove scratches, dust, etc. I convert the raw negative images to TIFF files (3600 dpi), which I treat as “digital negatives.” I may then generate any number and specifically sized high-quality JPEGs for photo books, slide shows, etc. During JPEG generation, I use DxO’s version of Nik Silver Efex to ensure tonal ‘consistency’ across a series of images. For example, if I want to create an image that “emulates” TriX, I put TriX in the camera, shoot, process, and follow the sequence just outlined. 

[hansvons]

11 hours ago, Tom R said:

Which is one of the many reasons that I stopped upgrading C1 at v20, which I keep around to edit the occasional  images created on an old M8.2.

C1 of today can all you do in Affinity 2. 

12 hours ago, leica dream said:

I have been digging around the web and found something saying C1 does not process TIFF images.

My British friends would call that bollocks. C1 edits Tiffs just fine. The only constraint is that either sRGB or RGB 1998 colour space are required. Your BW files are very likely grey scale files. Just convert them into RGB and all will work as it should. 

[leica dream]

Hansvons, my source of information about TIFFs was from the C1 registered User Knowledge Base!

Anyway, I have moved on now and can work things through for my needs..

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, hansvons said:

Your BW files are very likely grey scale files. Just convert them into RGB and all will work as it should. 

Correct - there are limitations for Greyscale in Photoshop as well. I think that Grayscale is basically an output format intended for people viewing on wonky monitors and the printing business. 

[hansvons]

10 minutes ago, leica dream said:

Hansvons, my source of information about TIFFs was from the C1 registered User Knowledge Base!

My C1 reads Tiffs just fine, and it always did so in the past (the last version still uses the underlying C1 20/21 engine). Why shouldn't it? Actually, when exporting images to third-party applications like Photoshop, C1 uses the Tiff format. I'm convinced that in your workflow, something is off (scanning?), and C1 is not the culprit. However, you seem to have found a way to navigate that. 

[hansvons]

10 minutes ago, jaapv said:

wonky monitors and the printing business. 

I don't know about the wonky monitors 😎, but when printing B&W, you want to use a grey scale image. The RGB-grey scale conversion, however, will be done by the printing software on the fly.

[jaapv]

I do so on export. I wonder does it reduce metamerism in the print?

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[hansvons]

19 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I do so on export. I wonder does it reduce metamerism in the print?

Yes, definitely. B&W images in RGB can be also printed with colour inks in the game that will lead to visible metamerism. Using grey scale avoids that with printers that have sufficient grey/black inks in their aresenal. I know that my Epson 4900 clogging pig (finally dead now) was a heavy metameriser. My new Canon 44“ printer is on a whole other level. However, I still select in the printing software grey scale to avoid possible metamerism when printing B&W. 

[Tom R]

5 hours ago, hansvons said:

C1 of today can all you do in Affinity 2. 

My British friends would call that bollocks. C1 edits Tiffs just fine. The only constraint is that either sRGB or RGB 1998 colour space are required. Your BW files are very likely grey scale files. Just convert them into RGB and all will work as it should. 

C1 can do everything that I now do in Affinity … and more. But, I don’t use any of C1’s Presets, or its other sophisticated tools that might be useful to someone working with DNGs wishing to standardize their process, etc. So, I choose the most direct tools to get the job done—thus avoiding menu/feature clutter and Capture One’s pricing policy. 

Certainly, if I needed to produce commercial work, on time, and with distributed/shared working capabilities, I’d re-up my C1 license and maintain the latest version. Happily, I don’t.