75 Noctilux / 90 Summilux for “general” use too?

[Jon Warwick]

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I’m aware the key rationale to buy the 75 Noctilux / 90 Summilux is typically for use wide open for the obliteration of the background and sharp fall-off. I’m also aware the lenses are beasts at 1kg each!

My question is more to do with the flexibility of these lenses for additional  uses - specifically edge-to-edge performance at infinity for landscapes?

Are they, for all intents and purposes, the highest resolving M lenses one can get for such use too, close to the SL Summicrons? Or at f5.6, would one expect the 75 Noctilux / 90 Summilux to offer no resolution advantage over (say) the M 75 and 90 Summicron APOs, which are a fraction of the weight?

Edited December 16, 2024 by Jon Warwick

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[a.noctilux]

It's so individual that the best way to know is using them by oneself.

...

Out of curiosity (and by then fan of Noctilux 1-50 which I use for long), I tried one of each in the shop, not real life.

It was enough for me, so trying in the shop avoided me to carry one of those in real life use and I do understand their existence.

The 1.25/75 hides a lot the framelines (4 corners) even hood retracted and the weight/balancing is nono for me.

Now I use happily 2.5/75 while having the 1.4/75 for many decades, my wife owns Apo-Summicron75mm.

Same  for the 90mm, my last acquisition is Apo-Summicron-M 2/90 very good lens for "general" use and portable with less frame hiding than the bigger 90mm.

 

[darylgo]

Hi Jon,

Leica produces mtf curves for each of their lenses, a comparison of those curves should give you measured results.  I don't believe anyone publishes resolution numbers as Modern and Popular Photography did in the magazine days.  Perhaps Reid Reviews or the Leica Store Miami Noctilux Episode on Youtube Live.  

From my own experience with the 75 Noctilux, it was an exceptional lens, I don't believe it will leave anything to be desired for landscape.   

[darylgo]

5 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

It was enough for me, so trying in the shop avoided me to carry one of those in real life use and I do understand their existence.

This calls into question your screen name.  😀 

[fil-m]

Just answering to the title of your post. I see the 75/1.25 as a "specialty lens" for its unique signature between 1.25 and 2-2.8. For a Noctilux, it has amazing technical quality, with lots of biting sharpness and great micro contrast even wide open, and way more than the 50/.95

I can't say how it compares to the APO 75 in terms of resolving power as I never made a direct comparison, though I don't personally see how I could ask for more. It is already -almost- too much! 

My own assessment is that even though it is usable for general purpose (I sometimes use it for street photography), it consumes extra effort and needs specific handling (including the focusing), so I only use it when I am seeking the kind of images that it makes. 

[a.noctilux]

1 minute ago, darylgo said:

This calls into question your screen name.  😀 

I can not change.

this naming was fun some decades ago and real life/real use

now (for so many years I don't use weighty lens anymore).

[darylgo]

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2 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

I can not change.

this naming was fun some decades ago and real life/real use

now (for so many years I don't use weighty lens anymore).

No worries, I won't tell anyone. 

Me too, I had 'em and now only the 50/1. 

1 hour ago, Jon Warwick said:

specifically edge-to-edge performance at infinity for landscapes

 So, I did look up the mtf curves and at 5.6 the 75 Noctilux is the equal of the 75 Apo Summicron SL and slightly improves on the 75 Apo Summicron M.   IRL I am not sure the differences would be easily discernible.  

[3D-Kraft.com]

You can take a look at the MTF graphs:

Noctilux-M 75: https://leica-camera.com/sites/default/files/pm-59031-Datenblatt_Noctilux-M-1.25_75mm-ASPH_e_2.pdf

APO Summicron-M 75: https://leica-camera.com/sites/default/files/pm-55442-APO-Summicron-M75-TechnicalData.pdf

I am not an expert in reading these graphs, but I would say, the Noctilux 75 performs even better stopped down to f/5.6 (higher contrast even at 40 lp/mm resolution and more consistency across the whole frame). The Summicron vignettes a little less.

So I would say, it is "more than enough" for current sensors also for general purposes.

Perhaps I find some time the next days to make a landscape test shot with the 75 Noct but I have no APO Summicron for comparison.

Edited December 16, 2024 by 3D-Kraft.com

[adan]

There is no reason at all that the super-fast 75 and 90 (or the 50 Noctilux, for that matter) cannot be used for general photography.

It just comes down to whether one wants to lug them around all the time. They weigh more than some of my medium-format lenses. 🤪

[evikne]

Of course you can. But I hope at least sometimes you also intend to use it wide open for portraits etc. Otherwise it would be an insane waste of money, weight and (not least) the capabilities of the lens.

[darylgo]

11 minutes ago, evikne said:

Of course you can. But I hope at least sometimes you also intend to use it wide open for portraits etc. Otherwise it would be an insane waste of money, weight and (not least) the capabilities of the lens.

Use wide open early morning handheld yields great results for landscape also.  

[3D-Kraft.com]

The point is different: If you carry that lens anyway because you expect situations, where you can profit from the shallow DoF (.e.g. portraits), the question would be, if you still have to carry another lens in that focal range for landscape. The answer is: No, you haven't.

By the way: The subject separation and the ability to blur backgrounds even work on distances (around 15 m) where a Summicron or Summarit 75 will not separate anymore:

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Drmat]

I get spectacular results with the 75 noctilux stopped down on the M10M.  The lens has a different character than other lenses - i.e., it is not the same as the 75 cron at same aperture.  Does that matter?  Not really.  The only disadvantage is the size, but no one should think it a waste of money if it is not to be exclusively used at F1.25.

[Drmat]

I use mine mostly for portrait and fashion photography, and generally wide open.  I also like it for landscapes.  The advantage of the lens is I have all the apertures!  It is also clean across the frame and the tonal separation on the monochrom is suitable for my work.

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 59 Minuten schrieb Drmat:

The lens has a different character than other lenses - i.e., it is not the same as the 75 cron at same aperture.

If you have also the 75 Cron: What difference in character do you see, when stopped down?

[Drmat]

i do not have the 75 cron.  I just tested in a store.  Both are nice lenses.  The noctilux was just a bit smoother in the bokeh and the tones were richer.  But it is something one needs to look for to see the difference in most photos.

I was thinking of getting the 75 cron as a replacement for the noctilux (smaller, less expensive), but the photos just felt different.

I love the noctilux.  It is my workhorse lens.

Edited December 17, 2024 by Drmat

[RexGig0]

I did a virtual (internet-only) “deep dive” into the Noctilux-M 75, when it was the New Hot Thing. An important consideration, from the beginning, was that Leica specified that the tripod be attached to the special foot, that attaches to the lens. More specifically, the Noctilux 75 must not be allowed to hang out into the air, with its weight supported only by the lens mount. The camera body could hang from the lens, but, not vice versa. I no longer recall the amount of lens weight/mass that can be allowed to hand freely, from a Leica M mount, but, the Noctilux 75 simply exceeds that weight/mass.

While I do believe that it is best to support the lens, while shooting, regardless, and I do generally cradle the lens, in my left hand, while moving about with a camera, I considered that this indicated that the camera/lens combo should probably not be allowed to hang from a strap, and also considered the stresses that could occur while the camera and lens were inside a bag or case, with the lens being mounted on the camera. If I were to haul a Noctilux 75 along a mountain trail, I would feel compelled to pack it separately from the camera body.

To be clear, I came to believe that the Noctilux 75 was very much “worth it,” optically. Unlike previous Noctilux lenses, the 75 is very highly-corrected, optically. If I were to decide to spend $13K US (at that time) on a lens, the Noctilux 75 would deliver results. 

Edited to add: In the USA, Lens Rentals dot com offers the Noctilux-M 75 and Summilux-M 90, allowing one to try before buying. Either this site, or this iPad, will not allow a link to be posted.

 

Edited December 20, 2024 by RexGig0

[pgk]

Faster lenses have bigger elements which gives them the potential to allow more light to refect around inside of them and so flare can increase as a result. Faster lenses are also bigger and heavier than slower ones. Given that when stopped down for 'traditional' landscape use, any of Leica's 75/90mm lenses will achieve pretty acceptable results, I can't see any reason for choosing a very fast, short telephoto over a slower one unless it is the only one you have.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb pgk:

...unless it is the only one you have.

... or you have decide, which of your lenses to put into your bag.