Leica M11P, Leica Q3 43, or Leica 35mm M APO

[KenLW]

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Hi folks, I’m back with a bit of GAS because this is my time of year for spending a little extra on gear. Before you criticize, I’ve taken great advice from this forum by selling off several pieces, including my GFX100S and Fuji X-T5.

Current Lineup

Now, I’m down to the Leica gear that I would never part with:

Leica M-E (Type 220)
Leica M6 (just got a fresh CLA from YYE Camera—yay!)
Leica MP
Leica SL2 in silver
Leica 35mm Summicron v1 8-element with goggles
Leica 35mm Summilux ASPH pre-FLE
Leica 50mm Summicron V4

I also have a beat-up Leica SL with a 50mm Lumix f/1.8 as my EDC and go-to camera when traveling in sketchy areas like downtown San Francisco, where gear theft or robbery is a real concern. Additionally, I’m actively using the Voigtländer 50mm APO-Lanthar, which I plan to sell at some point after switching to the Leica M 50mm APO in the future.

The Theme
My current collection aims to produce pleasing images with that classic, vintage Leica look. For this next purchase, I’m considering something more modern to achieve the best possible image quality from Leica.

Considerations
1. Leica M11-P:

I’ve been thinking about getting this camera on multiple occasions. I nearly bought it earlier this year but decided to wait until the freezing issue was resolved. Is it fixed now? I’ve heard it’s less common on the M11-P compared to the M11. Another hesitation is that I already own three M bodies, so it might be time to try something different to diversify the look of my images.

2. Leica Q3 43:

I previously owned the original Leica Q but moved away from it after transitioning to the M system. The appeal of the Q3 is its combination of best Leica image quality in a compact package with autofocus, making it perfect for travel photography. The 43mm focal length would also be ideal for everyday portraits of my partner and cat. I’m familiar with this focal length from shooting with an 80mm medium format 6x6 lens, which is roughly equivalent to 43mm on full-frame. The Q3’s sensor will be the best in my current Leica collection, and the built-in optical image stabilization (is it in the lens?) would be a great asset for low-light shooting.

3. Leica 35mm M APO:

Initially, this was my top choice because it’s arguably the best M 35mm lens I could buy, and 35mm is my favorite focal length. However, I’m already quite satisfied with my two existing 35mm Leica lenses. Moreover, my current setup wouldn’t fully utilize the resolving power or close-focus capabilities of the M APO. Since I already own two SL bodies, opting for a used 35mm SL APO might be a more cost-effective choice, and it would also provide objectively better performance than the M APO.

Thoughts and Recommendations?
Of course, I could just be content with my current lineup, which is fantastic. But after a year of hard work and with extra funds from selling some other gear, I feel like I deserve a new addition that I wouldn’t be looking to sell anytime soon.

What do you think? Should I go for the M11-P, the Q3 43, or perhaps the 35mm SL APO? I’m open to any thoughts and suggestions.

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[Mahesh]

Q3 43 because it is completely different to what you have! Try something new if you got the cash 

[KenLW]

21 minutes ago, Mahesh said:

Q3 43 because it is completely different to what you have! Try something new if you got the cash 

Yes, this is exactly the reason why I want to get the Q3 43. My photography has improved a lot since I switched from the original Q to M but now I want to try something new!

[Tseg]

The 43mm focal length of the Q3 is unique for Leica, and stabilization for crisp handheld shots down to about 1/30 shutter speed give or take based on your technique and situation is nice... plus the sensor provides a lot of flexibility.  And then there is the weather sealing.   As Mahesh stated, it will provide you the most differing experience vs. your other options.

[LeicaR10]

KenLW,   First, you face a challenge on how best to spend your hard earned money.  Second, there are a lot of well intentioned and experienced photographers in the forum who will offer their sage advice, to include myself.  Third, asking us how to best spend your cash might not be the best way to arrive at an answer only to find the camera or lens does not meet your intended needs.  Perhaps a better way might be to review your current photograph library and see what genres and content you photograph the most.  Then, assess your current camera and lens holdings and determine your current capabilities vs gaps you might have in real terms.  Once you do that list, it might become far obvious conclusion that your current holdings are fine and simply keep your cash in your bank account for something else.  Many photographers suffer from GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) only to find themselves hopelessly addicted, or have the discipline to resist GAS.  I have been to GAS rehab several times in my life...the only cure is discipline.  In the meantime, I suggest take a step back and think about what is best for you, rather than asking us to help you spend your money.    r/ Mark

Edited November 10 by LeicaR10

[KenLW]

49 minutes ago, Tseg said:

The 43mm focal length of the Q3 is unique for Leica, and stabilization for crisp handheld shots down to about 1/30 shutter speed give or take based on your technique and situation is nice... plus the sensor provides a lot of flexibility.  And then there is the weather sealing.   As Mahesh stated, it will provide you the most differing experience vs. your other options.

Yeah! It looks like the Q3 43 is the best among these choices!

[LeicaR10]

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KenLW,   I suggest you head over to Leica Store San Francisco and test drive the Q43 first, you might reach a different conclusion.  r/ Mark

[nameBrandon]

M11-P is much better with the random freezing issues. Had a couple M11 bodies, both locked up to some extent. Nothing terrible but it was present. M11-P and M11-M have been flawless. Will probably be selling off the M11-P soon, I just enjoy the M11M far too much, M11-P gets very little use now because....

... the Q343 is amazing. I love it far more than the Q328, which is now relegated to when I know I'll need 28mm (typically indoor events). The lens is almost too sharp, and this is coming from a hard-core pixel peeper. Like most, I have a decent set of 50mm lenses, and I've found myself just grabbing the Q343 when I want 50mm.

I'd say get the Q343.

[KenLW]

Just now, LeicaR10 said:

KenLW,   I suggest you head over to Leica Store San Francisco and test drive the Q43 first, you might reach a different conclusion.  r/ Mark

Thanks for your detailed answer from the previous thread and this advice! I believe Q43 would fit the best for my need of having a lightweight travel camera with AF and weather resistance for travel and family portraits. This was previously filled by my Fuji XT50, but I don’t like the APSC image quality, so I sold it.  I’ve used a Q extensively before, so I know I can use a Q system. And I’m pretty familiar with the 43mm focal lengths as well because I use 80mm film 6x6 medium format quite often. I will give it a try one from the store before I make a purchase.

My only practical reason for getting the M11 is cropping because I found myself cropping pretty often on my M-E, but it does not have the resolution. The USB-C would be good for travel as well.

The 35mm M APO is just something I want to buy for a while, and admittedly, I probably won’t have a practical need for this.

 

[KenLW]

8 minutes ago, nameBrandon said:

M11-P and M11-M have been flawless

Thanks for the confirmation!

9 minutes ago, nameBrandon said:

enjoy the M11M far too much, M11-P gets very little use now

I will probably try a monochrome camera one of these days especially for the high ISO performance. I got my needs covered most with B&W film and M-E CCD with monochrome jpeg. 
 

10 minutes ago, nameBrandon said:

decent set of 50mm lenses

Yeah! And 75mm beyond for social media posts as well.

[Tseg]

You could always ask yourself, “what problem am I trying to solve?”.  Right now it you kind of sound like you are looking for a problem to address your solution(s).  I know, crazy talk.

[KenLW]

2 hours ago, Tseg said:

You could always ask yourself, “what problem am I trying to solve?”.  Right now it you kind of sound like you are looking for a problem to address your solution(s).  I know, crazy talk.

Hopefully, my problem statement was clear: "My current collection aims to produce pleasing images with that classic, vintage Leica look. For this next purchase, I’m considering something more modern to achieve the best possible image quality from Leica."

Lately, I've been inspired by many works on LFI that showcase a more contemporary, polished aesthetic, distinct from the vintage style I typically aim for. I understand that getting featured on LFI isn't about having the latest gear—it's about the photographer's vision and the scene itself. That said, I’m curious to try out newer Leica equipment that embodies this modern look.

I'm considering a few options: investing in a new, modern M lens, trying out the Q3 with the latest sensor and APO lens, or upgrading to the M11 the same (or similar?) sensor. While I could also expand my SL collection, I primarily shoot with M lenses and appreciate the lightweight versatility of combining them with the SL2.

This next step is about experiencing a different side of Leica's offerings and seeing how it complements my existing collection and shooting style.

[Matt Stevens]

The Q3... Because it's very different from what you have. I find the 28mm best for interiors, street and architectural (which is what I tend to shoot). 

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, KenLW said:

Hopefully, my problem statement was clear: "My current collection aims to produce pleasing images with that classic, vintage Leica look. For this next purchase, I’m considering something more modern to achieve the best possible image quality from Leica."

Lately, I've been inspired by many works on LFI that showcase a more contemporary, polished aesthetic, distinct from the vintage style I typically aim for. I understand that getting featured on LFI isn't about having the latest gear—it's about the photographer's vision and the scene itself. That said, I’m curious to try out newer Leica equipment that embodies this modern look.

I'm considering a few options: investing in a new, modern M lens, trying out the Q3 with the latest sensor and APO lens, or upgrading to the M11 the same (or similar?) sensor. While I could also expand my SL collection, I primarily shoot with M lenses and appreciate the lightweight versatility of combining them with the SL2.

This next step is about experiencing a different side of Leica's offerings and seeing how it complements my existing collection and shooting style.

It is certainly not the same sensor. The M11 microlens/filter stack has been optimized for M lenses, the Q sensor is designed to be a unit with the lens. 

[JoshuaRothman]

I'd go for the Q3 43. 

If you get an M11-P, you'll still be shooting old-style glass on the new camera. So your images won't have that ultra-modern bite.

If you get the 35 APO, you'll need to shoot it on the SL2 to really have an ultra-modern combination. 

But if you get the Q3 43, you'll leap directly to having that definitely-not-vintage look.

The only thing I'd consider is whether, in the long term, you'd be better served by replacing the M-E with an M11-generation camera. But the total cost of buying that camera plus a lens like the 35 APO will be very high. You'd have to clear out more gear or spend more. You could upgrade to an M11 and purchase a less expensive modern 35. Like the FLE v1 or Voigtlander 35 APO. Perhaps trade the SL2 and M-E for a 35 FLE, and then buy yourself a new M11.

Compared to that sort of switch, the Q3 43 has the advantage of giving you a single-investment, one-and-done path to ultra-modernity. Plus it's a new camera, with its own vibe, which counts for something for sure!

[M8X2]

I'll take the role of devil's advocate. You're welcome! I would get an M11 and a modern rendering 35 like the Summarit 2.4, which is comparatively cheap but still great.

The first reason is driven by personal taste. At least for me, the Q experience was not as great as I thought it would be. Partly, it was due to the fact that I had the Q2. Maybe, the Q3 43 would have been more versatile for me, but it was not available. I was cropping a lot as there often was stuff in the frame I didn't like. Also, using the Q was not as satisfying as using an M. I know at least one other person who went through this ... twice.

The second reason is interoperability and consistency in user experience. If there would be nothing the Ms/SLs cannot do for you, that way, you get access to way more permutations, e.g., old glass/new cam or new glass/old cam.

[Almizilero]

Got the M11-P and the 35 APO. The combo is amazing! I just tried it as the only lens during a trip to Naples and it just delivered. The lens if everything one could wish for and makes it possible to use the M11 in a Q kind of way with the ability to crop to at least 85mm and still have plenty sharp and detailed images. Add the excellent minimum focus distance and it's a near perfect one lens for all setup (at least for my travel needs).

I had no freezes or any problem with my M11-P. I always reset the camera when I upgrade the firmware and that seems to work fine.

If the choice is between the lens and the body, I'd go for the lens. In your case, it is not so easy. The SL 35 APO is an absolute dream lens, but the combo of an SL camera with the lens is much bigger and heavier than an M with the surprisingly small 35 APO M.

I think you have an excellent setup in both SL and M terms, so maybe it is time to give the Q another shot.

[hdmesa]

7 hours ago, jaapv said:

It is certainly not the same sensor. The M11 microlens/filter stack has been optimized for M lenses, the Q sensor is designed to be a unit with the lens. 

Same base sensor is shared between M11, SL3, and Q3, but each has a different microlens array design and cover glass stack. I don't like calling them different sensors unless the base silicon changes, but that's just me. I would call them variants.

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[jaapv]

The base silicon is of course only relevant for noise behaviour ,  DR and possibly crosstalk, as it is a monochrome analog measuring device. The filter stack and in-camera processing make the real difference. 

[KenLW]

6 hours ago, JoshuaRothman said:

I'd go for the Q3 43. 

If you get an M11-P, you'll still be shooting old-style glass on the new camera. So your images won't have that ultra-modern bite.

If you get the 35 APO, you'll need to shoot it on the SL2 to really have an ultra-modern combination. 

But if you get the Q3 43, you'll leap directly to having that definitely-not-vintage look.

The only thing I'd consider is whether, in the long term, you'd be better served by replacing the M-E with an M11-generation camera. But the total cost of buying that camera plus a lens like the 35 APO will be very high. You'd have to clear out more gear or spend more. You could upgrade to an M11 and purchase a less expensive modern 35. Like the FLE v1 or Voigtlander 35 APO. Perhaps trade the SL2 and M-E for a 35 FLE, and then buy yourself a new M11.

Compared to that sort of switch, the Q3 43 has the advantage of giving you a single-investment, one-and-done path to ultra-modernity. Plus it's a new camera, with its own vibe, which counts for something for sure!

Thanks for the suggestions! I agree with all the points related to the Q3 43. It’s a solid single investment for getting the best ultra-modern look.

I’m not planning to sell my M-E and hope to keep it forever until the day when Leica can no longer fix it, which would mean I’d have to hunt for another one. There are two different M-E models. Mine is the Type 220 with the M9 CCD sensor. It’s also updated to sensor ID16, so hopefully, it remains corrosion-free in the near future. This is probably one of the best M digital cameras Leica has produced, and they are extremely hard to find. For me, the M11 would be something I’d buy at a good used price and eventually sell when another new M comes out.

I won’t trade my SL2 because it’s the special silver edition, and there are some personal stories behind it, which I won’t get into.

As for the FLE v1, I actually compared the pre-FLE against the FLE v1 when I bought the pre-FLE. The decision at the time was that the pre-FLE has the closest look to the 35mm Lux Aspherical and is a great mix of vintage and modern. The pre-FLE is also much lighter and balances better on the M camera. That said, the FLE is probably the cheapest Leica lens to get the ultra-modern look (it’s actually cheaper than a pre-FLE in the same condition nowadays). However, it’s not as good as the 35M APO in the corners. The Voigtlander 35 APO is great! I have the Voigtlander 50 APO, which is just a little bit too big for me, but I have no complaints for a lens that costs only $700 if you buy it new in Japan or <$1000 in the US.