M system tips for new user

[pedaes]

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1 hour ago, Velo-city said:

latest tech (as of 2022) in the M11

Does the M11 need 'latest tech'. No video, no stabilization, no sensor cleaning, no autofocus etc. Great!

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[lct]

Interesting discussion. What some people dislike in the M11 is exactly what i like: a mix of ancient and modern technology. A sort of Janus camera. Both RF and mirrorless. The best OVF + a decent EVF. The common point being those superb M lenses. Leica lenses of course but also ZM, VM and now affordable lenses coming from China. The M12 will be even more modern i guess but not too much hopefully. You're on the right track, Leica, keep up the good work! 👍

[Velo-city]

1 hour ago, andybarton said:

It's literally in their strap line:

Leica: Das Wesentliche

It's at the bottom of the 70 Years of M cameras webpage

https://leica-camera.com/en-GB/photography/70-years-leica-m

Yes but what I quoted was on their main page for the M11 - in the opening paragraphs. It’s clearly billed as state of the art in equal standing to its other attributes. 
 

Look I get it. It’s pared back to basics. But basics can coexist with state of the art tech. And I’m certain that was Leicas desire/intention. Hence the 60mp sensor. Basics  doesn’t require tech that’s out of date or functioning poorly/incorrectly. Far from it. That’s just bad engineering and/design choices. You don’t put a state of the art v90 capable SD card system in a camera and use old tech to make it slow and unstable as a way of ‘getting back to basics’. It just wasn’t done right. And I don’t think anyone participating in this topic can honestly say the M11 worked as well as it should. 

But thank you to that person for posting it because now I’ll think more carefully than I usually would about SD cards - currently I’ve got one f my standard sandisk cards (non uhs-ii) from other cameras. No point just ‘hoping for the best’ when people have already reported issues and card speeds. 
 

Anyone offended by comments calling out manufacturers failings should probably unfollow this or ignore me in their lists - I’ll be very happy to comment on everything I like about the camera (which hopefully ends up being the majority) but equally the same for any thoughts/annoyances/ failings. 
 

Thanks also to everyone for the extra tips so far. I’m hoping to have a good window today/tomorrow to start trying some of them out. Am hoping I manage to get at least one in-focus picture that I’m not ashamed of……. 😂

[lct]

43 minutes ago, Velo-city said:

You don’t put a state of the art v90 capable SD card system in a camera and use old tech to make it slow and unstable as a way of ‘getting back to basics’. It just wasn’t done right. And I don’t think anyone participating in this topic can honestly say the M11 worked as well as it should. 

Again v90 cards work perfectly with the M11 since firmware 2.1.3. If you don't like that camera it is your right of course but please don't spread false rumors and remember it is a Leica forum here. Not Canon, Nikon or Sony. Leica, Sony and Fuji user speaking... all with M lenses of course 😎

Edited November 5 by lct

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Velo-city said:

Yes but what I quoted was on their main page for the M11 - in the opening paragraphs. It’s clearly billed as state of the art in equal standing to its other attributes. 
 

Look I get it. It’s pared back to basics. But basics can coexist with state of the art tech. And I’m certain that was Leicas desire/intention. Hence the 60mp sensor. Basics  doesn’t require tech that’s out of date or functioning poorly/incorrectly. Far from it. That’s just bad engineering and/design choices. You don’t put a state of the art v90 capable SD card system in a camera and use old tech to make it slow and unstable as a way of ‘getting back to basics’. It just wasn’t done right. And I don’t think anyone participating in this topic can honestly say the M11 worked as well as it should. 

But thank you to that person for posting it because now I’ll think more carefully than I usually would about SD cards - currently I’ve got one f my standard sandisk cards (non uhs-ii) from other cameras. No point just ‘hoping for the best’ when people have already reported issues and card speeds. 
 

Anyone offended by comments calling out manufacturers failings should probably unfollow this or ignore me in their lists - I’ll be very happy to comment on everything I like about the camera (which hopefully ends up being the majority) but equally the same for any thoughts/annoyances/ failings. 
 

Thanks also to everyone for the extra tips so far. I’m hoping to have a good window today/tomorrow to start trying some of them out. Am hoping I manage to get at least one in-focus picture that I’m not ashamed of……. 😂

By what definition is not implementing non-needed technology a failing?  There is no need for super fast cards in a camera that does no video. Leica is about providing functional solutions for photographic tools, not trying to run in a rat-race. 
BTW there is a forum rule against Leica bashing. 

[evikne]

I thought this thread was going to be about tips and tricks for the M system. My tip for photographing moving subjects is to try to keep the subject in focus as much as possible in advance, by looking in the viewfinder and fine-tuning the focus as the subject moves. If it's a person or an animal, focus on the nearest eye. Because of the focus patch, this must always be in the center of the frame. But at the decisive moment (the photographer's artistic decision), you quickly recompose as you want and take the picture.

[RobW0]

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My tip is don't try and make the M camera system something it is not. You need to adapt your shooting style to the camera rather than try and adapt the camera to a shoot style that does not work with the camera. If you can not do that then don't do the M. Just my opinion. 

[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, Velo-city said:

...You don’t put a state of the art v90 capable SD card system in a camera and use old tech to make it slow and unstable as a way of ‘getting back to basics’... 

Older doesn't mean unstable. Sometimes it's newer that's unstable. The M11 SD card writing under the current firmware is rock solid.

You keep writing mountains of negative comments here for no real reason. I think we've all heard your opinions by now.

[JNK100]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:23 AM, Velo-city said:

Don’t want to derail my own topic with all these helpful tips including yours (thanks) - but I’d have to strongly disagree with that. It’s just bad product design and poor engineering to use such outdated underlying tech in a new camera at this level. The camera ‘not needing it’ is no excuse as the article clearly states it causes unreliability. Same for older gen usb. 
Same for anything else that doesn’t work properly. 

I haven’t had any issues with any decent brand name memory cards in any camera for probably decades. The first time it becomes a consideration is when purchasing a camera which retails at circa £8k and claims to be the pinnacle of rangefinder digital engineering from one of the most legendary brands in the world. Even the internally memory is apparently slower than an SD card.  And it seems even a compatible good V90 card runs relatively slowly in an M11. 
Leica should do better, and should be called out when they don’t if they want to preserve their brand reputation. Even more so than the mainstream brands. The last thing they need is users defending them. 

You may want to consider a Sony in that case. The M is a very different experience.

[JNK100]

On 11/4/2024 at 11:07 AM, Velo-city said:

Respectfully I never said I knew what an M was about, quite openly discussing how I’m trying to find out.
 

This isn’t about latest tech for the sake of it. 
What I’m talking about is a Leica design decision to apparently use older technology in their latest model, that causes the camera to become not only inferior speed-wise but unstable/unreliable. That’s obviously a poor choice by any manufacturer. It’s got nothing to do with rangefinders or the ‘ethos’ of the M system.  
And in fact I never read about this issue is all my research - it must have got buried under all the other issues.😂

I get the strong brand loyalty here but no need to be so defensive.

How long have you had your M11 for?

[Velo-city]

Thanks again for all the tips. I had a good chunk of time shooting with it yesterday and even managed to get a pic posted here. The tips were really helpful and even though I’ve used rangefinder minimally before, it gave me a bit more confidence with it on a new camera and in situations/places where I wouldn’t have used the Mamiya.
 

I originally did a longish write up of my experience from the day, but then seeing some of the comments above decided to delete it - I thought it was quite balanced but since I did experience some of the issues I was hoping not to, no doubt would see me accused of ‘Leica bashing’ or something here. 

[hdmesa]

6 hours ago, Velo-city said:

Thanks again for all the tips. I had a good chunk of time shooting with it yesterday and even managed to get a pic posted here. The tips were really helpful and even though I’ve used rangefinder minimally before, it gave me a bit more confidence with it on a new camera and in situations/places where I wouldn’t have used the Mamiya.
 

I originally did a longish write up of my experience from the day, but then seeing some of the comments above decided to delete it - I thought it was quite balanced but since I did experience some of the issues I was hoping not to, no doubt would see me accused of ‘Leica bashing’ or something here. 

Just make a new post for your experience with the M11. That would go a long way to not looking like the purpose of starting this thread was just so you could air grievances you already had. And it would be nice if your observations were actually something new, otherwise an M11 "first impressions" might come across as yawn-worthy given the M11 has been out for over two years now 🥱

[M8X2]

Love the tips, many of them qualify as mantra rather than newbie advice.

[newtoleica]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:23 AM, Velo-city said:

Don’t want to derail my own topic with all these helpful tips including yours (thanks) - but I’d have to strongly disagree with that. It’s just bad product design and poor engineering to use such outdated underlying tech in a new camera at this level. The camera ‘not needing it’ is no excuse as the article clearly states it causes unreliability. Same for older gen usb. 
Same for anything else that doesn’t work properly. 

I haven’t had any issues with any decent brand name memory cards in any camera for probably decades. The first time it becomes a consideration is when purchasing a camera which retails at circa £8k and claims to be the pinnacle of rangefinder digital engineering from one of the most legendary brands in the world. Even the internally memory is apparently slower than an SD card.  And it seems even a compatible good V90 card runs relatively slowly in an M11. 
Leica should do better, and should be called out when they don’t if they want to preserve their brand reputation. Even more so than the mainstream brands. The last thing they need is users defending them. 

Fair enough

[acalmplace]

Practice evaluating exposure in different situations, ideally developping your 'best guess, iso-speed-aperture combos for similar situations and use them as starting points. For instance, I tend to preset my exposure and review it periodically to save time.
Obviously, this is not as useful if you plan on using iso or shutter speed priority...

[acalmplace]

Practice focussing on moving subjects, or immobile ones while you are walking.