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Any M8 users with Nikon D3 or d300 experience?


tom0511

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I have both and they complement each other perfectly. In some respects, the D3 treads on the M8's toes when it comes to available light, you have at least 3 stops noise advantage and I have really enjoyed using my fast Nikon primes again. The D3 may be big and noisy, but the M8 isn't that quiet and isn't that compact.

 

As for IQ, I'm probably not as discerning as some here but I rate them both very highly but you do need to put Nikon's best glass on the front. What I do know is that I get more images which are accurately exposed, pretty well white balanced and in focus with the Nikon than I do with the Leica.

 

If you then factor in the value for money - the D3 is (ball-park) the same as an M8, a WATE or a Noctilux, it's a lot of camera for the money.

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No, I don't have a D3 but what the heck, I felt to bring something to the table.

More than once I have second-guessed my choice of the M8 vs. D3. In my particular case, I simply liked the form factor of the Leica over the Nikon. In fact, the D3 was 400-bucks less than my new M8, so one has to really embrace the rangefinder and optics in order to rationalize the cost/feature imbalance. Based on my level of experience, I can see it will take more effort to become proficient with the M8 than with most any DSLR although in the end I’m confident that the results will be worth it.

Regards,

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Let me add my $0.03.

 

I have a Nikon D200 and altho it is a good camera I never really carried it to much because of the size, and that is without the battery grip, and the weight of it. Along those same lines if I did take it with me, and those times is when I planned on doing some photography not just to have it with me, if I wanted to take any other lenses with it I would need to have a bag also to carry the lens/es. Friends have the D2x/s and I find it totally restictive.

With the M8 I can take it anywhere I go and carry 3,4,5 lenses with me in a photo vest and not feel overloaded

Now I'm not a Pro and don't charge and will not accept money for any photography I do, it is a hobby. So to have one of these behemoth cameras, whether Nikon, Canon, whatever, it would just sit in a bag, just like my D200 has done for almost a year.

Now if I was a Pro and needed a DSLR for work then I would have one of the newer models.

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I have both the M8 and the D300 and simply stated find them different horses for different courses.

 

I love the size and weight of the M8 and find it handles beautifully. I think you can't just compare body sizes and weights. By the time you put the much larger lenses on the Nikon body the overall package is much larger.

 

On the other hand, size notwithstanding, I can take two of the newest Nikon zoom lenses and have coverage from 14 to 70mm with lens quality that absolutely rivals the Leica glass. These new Nikon zooms just have to be used to understand just how good they are. Add a 70-200 zoom and a 1.4X Teleconverter and you have coverage all the way to 350mm! Tough to beat.

 

I still like the overall IQ from the M8 better than the Nikon. I am sure it is primarily due to the Kodak CCD without AA filter compared to the Nikon CMOS sensor with a rather strong AA filter. PP work can bring the Nikon image almost to the level of the M8 but it does take work. I still love the fact that I can essentially use images direct from the M8 without much if any PP which saves a lot of time.

 

Finally I must say that I am getting many more keepers with the D300 than with the M8. This is primariy due to autofocus (I am just not as good at MF as others apparently) and composition. The loose frame lines of the M8 make it hard to get the composition you want so cropping almost always is required as compared to seeing the final image in the viewfinder.

 

Conclusion? I am keeping both systems because each one has its advantages and disadvantages. But if I could only have one...............D300!

 

Woody Spedden

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I wouldn't want to be in the position of choosing only one. The D300 and M8 complement each other nicely.

 

If Nikon built a stripped down D3 or D300 (smaller, without 6fps motor and a few other features), say the size of a D40, it would make the choice very difficult. I would venture to say that a full frame D3, in the form factor of a D40, even at $5K, would probably result in me going all Nikon, with prime lenses.

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I fully need to back Woody.

 

I have long year experience with Nikon (D200 and D2X) as well as with RF (M system) and while the M8 (and DMR) results came out of the box more conveniently looking and feeling the number of keepers with the Nikon gear is just way over the head of the M8 keepers. So although I am very used to MF on RFs, it is simply much slower and cumbersome than using advanced AF systems.

 

I also own the old 2,8/28-70 and 2,8/70-200 and if you replace the 28-70 with their new 24-70 and add the 14-24, you get 3 high quality lenses for the most usable working areas and they are definitely not second to Leica glass - not even primes.

 

I also suspect that the new Nanocoating is essentially improving image quality much more than the missing AA filter of the M8. I changed my old 2,8/105 (which was already excllent quality) with the new version, which is nanocoated and the image quality went up 100%, especially in contrast and critical light situations. But here comes the point - the 2 nw Nikkor Zooms 14-24 and 24-70 are also nanocoated, so I expect them to be same quality than the new 105.

 

Fazit: the new D3 (if you like FF) and the D300 using these modern latest generation glass of Nikon are absolute top and only very hard to be topped by Leica glass. Add to this the price, innovation potential, experience and money the clear winner is Nikon.

 

We will see how good the R10 is, especially with AF reliability and image quality, anyway the D3 is hard to top here today and if this will happen I am very sure the price of the R10 and new lenses will be at least double the price of the Nikon gear - just my 5c.

 

And finally - I love my M8 and I love the M system, but I will always use an AF DSLR for everydays work in parallel.

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I have both and find them a great complement. Image quality is quite comparable with the slight edge to the Leica in large prints (non-scientific comment). Noise is lower on the D3. My personal preference is for the rangefinder system; I just prefer the manual focusing it provides (when subject movement allows) and the great feel of the camera in my hands.

 

However, when I need "real" wide angles below 24mm, or longer than 135mm, out comes the D3. And for sports, with follow focus, it's the correct tool for me.

 

And a Happy New Year to all.

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I wouldn't want to be in the position of choosing only one. The D300 and M8 complement each other nicely.

 

If Nikon built a stripped down D3 or D300 (smaller, without 6fps motor and a few other features), say the size of a D40, it would make the choice very difficult. I would venture to say that a full frame D3, in the form factor of a D40, even at $5K, would probably result in me going all Nikon, with prime lenses.

 

Going Nion - yes, but with prime lenses only? Why not use their great zooms? Their prime lens sortiment is pretty small ....

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I have both the M8 and the D3 and the two systems are so radically different that it's like asking whether a boom box has better sound than a trumpet.

 

It's very difficult to answer the question for other reasons: are you interested in absolute image quality at the best ISO? Or must you have good high ISO? Do you want to be able to do extreme manipulation of DOF (as with the Noctilux?) How important is reliability? -- image quality is really crappy if the camera doesn't work.

 

There was a guy on this forum who is a famous printer, I guess, who says that his best prints come from M8s. Perhaps the best way to determine absolute image quality would be to have him print shots taken side-by-side with an M8 and a D3, each at the best ISO and a best-quality lens, pushing them as far as he can. My feeling (and I also may not be the most discerning guy here) is that absolute image quality, taking into account the entire system (Leica lenses, D3 sensor, etc.), and after post-processing, will be very close.

 

The thing that is hard to get around, though, is that my M8 shots look different than my D3 shots because the systems are so different. I'm not exactly shy, but I'm not outrageously in-your-face, either, and I'm a lot more comfortable shooting on the street with a Leica than I am with a D3. I also carry an M8 where I wouldn't carry a D3 simply because the D3 is so big: you're always aware of it hanging under your arm. It's *heavy.* And my attitude with a Leica is different, too; it's more "hanging out" than "on-the-job."

 

For "official" photography, for which I was paid money, I would opt for the D3 and would be confident of the image quality. For art/street photography (think HCB) the M8 would be the choice, not because HCB used it, but simply because you'd be more likely to have it with you when the great image jumps up.

 

I have started carrying the D3 in a small soft pack behind the passenger seat of my car, where I can reach it immediately. It's a great usable camera, for sure, and I've heard that their three new zoom lenses are terrific, if large. It's good to have the car to carry it.

 

Bjorn Rorslett has published his D3 review, by the way. It's here:

 

NRFOTO Bjrn Rrslett

 

Among other things, he points out that having a heavy camera can be an advantage, and he thinks the weight/handling of the D3 are exceptionally good. And he's a smart guy.

 

JC

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Came from a 1D mk II to a D300 and agree with Woody.

 

The D300 is a marvelous camera (significantly better than the 1D MK II IMO, which was too big, too heavy, too noisy etc) - and utterly different from the M8. At least as well built as the M8, if not better.

 

It just feels like a mature product - the software interface is very well thought out, but returning to the simplicity of the M8 is sometimes a relief.

 

Joy of joys, you can of course dial in old and non-nikon lenses so as to be fully compatible (Leica, why oh why...)

 

Woody is right - the new zooms are very very good - better than their fixed lenses and a hair away from Leica quality. I have been very disappointed with the older nikon fixed wideangles, though.

 

File quality - M8 is a little better - you realy notice the AA filter on the D300 after using the Leica. To get the best from the files you need at the moment to decode raws using capture NX software which is interesting but buggy.

 

3,600 asa on the Nikon is beautiful in B&W - pic below is at 6,800 asa (+ big levels push) straight from raw file - no noise reduction + in camera sharpening

 

 

Conclusion:

Skiing - take D300 leave M8 at home

Trudging round new city - take M8 leave D300 at home

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...Conclusion? I am keeping both systems because each one has its advantages and disadvantages. But if I could only have one...............D300!

 

Woody Spedden

 

Boy do I ever agree with you on this point! I took my new M8 to visit my daughter in Florida and we visted St. Augustine, which is a photographer’s paradise! In the six days I was there I took around 500 photos. I used the 28-‘cron and a 1.35 magnifier. When I returned home I was shocked at how horrible the results looked! They were so out of focus, I thought it was my lens and/or camera. I removed the magnifier and determined it wasn’t such a good idea with the 28-‘cron. I took some test shots on my tripod and surmised the slightest movement resulted in poor focus. Yes, 90-percent of those holiday shots were taken indoors so the culprit was a combination of inexperience and that damn magnifier with diopter adjustment. In short, I would have been better served with the D300. At this point, I learned a whole lot about my skill level or lack there of, and the challenges of manual focus. Heck, I was embarrassed to see that my no-nothing daughter received better grab-shot results with her D40.

Regards,:(

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Just to give you another example of learning how to focus:

 

it must not be the M8, you also can get into this issue with the latest and greatest E-3 (Oly) and the Leica 1,4/25. I bought this lens to have a real high speed lens for my FT system. So I use it mainly under low available light with 1,4 or 1,8 which I think it was mainly deigned for.

 

Here comes the issue. When using it at 1,4 and the AF of the E-3 (which Oly claims is one of the best and fastest) a lot of shots are just out of focus. It is not backfocus or frontfocus, because if you use the flash as AF illuminator (no other option with E-3) then you get the focus right at the point. So I started to be very careful with AF and the 25 fully open on an E-3 under low light low contrast.

 

What I ended up is that I usually override now AF with MF and then get perfect result, Not sure if this was same with my D2X and the 1,4/85 (cannot test because I do not have any Nikon body in the moment).

 

But as one can see - there are not only focusing problems with the M8. And if you add AF and MF time on an E-3 I know I am faster focusing my M8 manually even with the Nocti at F1 using the 1,25 magnifier and my glasses :-))

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I own all 3 of the cameras in question. It has been an expensive Fall!

 

Image Quality is similar between the 3 cameras.

 

The thing is, each camera has different purposes. I like to shoot Wildlife, and that requires a Zoom. There is nothing that beats the D3 with my Nikon 600mm AFS II for shooting birds, and eagles, and Bears.

 

On the other hand.... there is nothing that beats the Leica for people, street, travel and more.

 

The D300 does not compete with the two cameras mentioned, and I own it as we did a How To DVD on it, as we will for the D3.

 

You never really stated why you wanted to know?

 

DBK

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Going Nion - yes, but with prime lenses only? Why not use their great zooms? Their prime lens sortiment is pretty small ....

 

Yes, it is...I wouldn't go prime only, however. *IF* they did make a smaller D3, and *IF* I were to ditch the M8, I would get some primes to go along with the zooms. Mainly to get faster apertures, and smaller size.

 

But I seriously doubt they will make such a camera.

 

Another nice thing about the M8...being able to use such a wide variety of vintage optics.

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I have a D200 and 3 Zeiss ZF lenses (35, 50 macro, 100 macro). The M8 is spending more time in the dresser drawer these days.

 

I have Canon 1DS II and I and lenses from 600mm to 15mm. Unfortunately that stuff doesn't fit in a drawer.

 

I have to force myself to use a DSLR. Love the M8!

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I have all three and sadly the M8 has been spending a lot of time in the closet lately. At the moment I am caught up in the D3 high ISO fetish and can't seem to get rid of it. ...."turn the lights out dear I want to take a photograph".......

 

The D3 files at 6400 ISO and properly processed are something to behold

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I have the D300 and the M8. It is a pretty tough race when you put a nice Nikon prime on the front of the the D300. D300 is much better at high ISOs, auto WB is WAYYYY better. (The M8 auto WB is still truly a sick joke for a camera at this price point). Nikon has some very intelligent flash systems, blah blah....

 

And what is really hard to believe is that the D300 is a quieter, less obtrusive camera when it comes to shutter noise. I was stunned when I did a side-by-side comparison.

 

That said, the M8 is a rangefinder, and that big window with that nice, inaccurate frameline is hard to give up.

 

If you are willing to spend some money on good lenses, and are not invested emotionally in the 'rangefinder experience', I would get the Nikon.

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I have the M8 and the D3 and lately most of my work is being done with the D3 mainly because of the high ISO capability of the D3 (6400 is a delight to see). I think the D3 is just in a different ball game than the prior Nikons and I have had most in the last twenty years. Combining the D3 with Zeiss glass is almost Leica quality to my unprofessional eyes. Having said that, there are days I just want to walk around with a Leica in my hand and learn about photography all over again. I am just happy to be enjoying photography so much these days ;)

 

Wish you all a very Happy New Year,

Arif

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