mm0nte Posted October 24 Share #1 Posted October 24 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello everyone, I’m new to the forum but a long-time enthusiast of Leica cameras and photography in general, writing from Italy. I recently acquired a Leica 250 GG Reporter in the chrome finish from a private seller here in Italy. While most aspects of the camera align with original 250 Reporter models, I obviously have some doubts about its authenticity. The top engraving looks very wonky, it definitely appears to have been re-engraved at some point, and there’s no D.R.P. mark. The camera itself is in poor condition, with missing pieces and patina. It came with a 5cm f/2.5 Ektor lens attached and I do not know much about the history of this specific piece, since the seller was only able to tell me it was inherited from his grandparents. My knowledge in this area is limited, so I’d really appreciate any insights or advice on verifying the authenticity of this piece. I uploaded some pictures on Imgur since the limitation of the forum and I can take more if required. Thanks in advance for your help! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited October 24 by mm0nte Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/414406-leica-250-gg-reporter-chrome-finish-authenticity/?do=findComment&comment=5672681'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 24 Posted October 24 Hi mm0nte, Take a look here Leica 250 GG Reporter Chrome Finish Authenticity. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jankap Posted October 24 Share #2 Posted October 24 (edited) At the top of this page, there is a black part. Here you find the app Leica-Wiki. Perhaps you start here. Here is an interesting offer: https://www.jogeier.com/de/leitz-leica-250-ff-reporter-black-nickel-w-3-5-50mm-elmar-2110000730697?srsltid=AfmBOorf5r-xSkQXuh5Fd_XPg9eLmtoOCCd1RNOdIurHFDuiy3JcekTJ_b0 Edited October 24 by jankap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted October 25 Share #3 Posted October 25 you might have seen this http://www.wetzlar-historica-italia.it/250reporter.html There are many details on you camera indicating that this is fake Reporter however with many genuine Leica parts. Most probably a regular IIIa was taken as a basis and Reporter typical parts were manufactured. Reporters from the batch 352xxx were black painted. Here the genuine top cover from IIIa was taken (it was most probably chromed with engraved serial number different than this one), engravings were covered with tin, reengraved and chromed (see 1). Top cover has an indent (2) that was existent on late II/III but not Reporter. Slow speeds dial has been removed, hole (3) in the aluminium body is visible under non-genuine vulcanite. Lightshield (4) is postwar, used for conversions to IIIa syn but not like one from 1940. I am afraid that this is fake Reporter and not the very best. I have seen faked Reporters that were made much much better and only small details (how the gears or hidden film counter mechanism was made) indicated that that was fake. Hektor is genuine, within the batch 161xxx there were nickeled and chromed samples and and some samples from this batch were produced late 30ies/early 40ies and this is in line with engravings on distance scale Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/414406-leica-250-gg-reporter-chrome-finish-authenticity/?do=findComment&comment=5673312'>More sharing options...
mm0nte Posted October 25 Author Share #4 Posted October 25 1 hour ago, jerzy said: you might have seen this http://www.wetzlar-historica-italia.it/250reporter.html There are many details on you camera indicating that this is fake Reporter however with many genuine Leica parts. Most probably a regular IIIa was taken as a basis and Reporter typical parts were manufactured. Reporters from the batch 352xxx were black painted. Here the genuine top cover from IIIa was taken (it was most probably chromed with engraved serial number different than this one), engravings were covered with tin, reengraved and chromed (see 1). Top cover has an indent (2) that was existent on late II/III but not Reporter. Slow speeds dial has been removed, hole (3) in the aluminium body is visible under non-genuine vulcanite. Lightshield (4) is postwar, used for conversions to IIIa syn but not like one from 1940. I am afraid that this is fake Reporter and not the very best. I have seen faked Reporters that were made much much better and only small details (how the gears or hidden film counter mechanism was made) indicated that that was fake. Hektor is genuine, within the batch 161xxx there were nickeled and chromed samples and and some samples from this batch were produced late 30ies/early 40ies and this is in line with engravings on distance scale Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Thank you very much, this is what I suspected. It's almost certain that this is a 250 Reporter Frankenstein assembled with some original parts. I didn’t know about the post-war lightshield, and it aligns with the rest. The only thing that still seems strange to me is that the Leica 250 original parts appear very similar to genuine ones, whereas on other fakes I’ve seen, the differences are much more obvious. Am I wrong? Frame counter, knobs, plates appear to be quite close. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted October 25 Share #5 Posted October 25 2 hours ago, mm0nte said: The only thing that still seems strange to me is that the Leica 250 original parts appear very similar to genuine ones, whereas on other fakes I’ve seen, the differences are much more obvious. Am I wrong? Frame counter, knobs, plates appear to be quite close. It seems like a lot of trouble to go to, only to finish the job with crude engravings, leaving a partially visible slow speed dial socket and a flash sync that could easily have been removed. I wonder if more than one person worked on this, perhaps someone who just wanted to make a Reporter-style camera for practical purposes, and then some chancer who tried inexpertly to make it seem like the real thing, a bit like the story with the Soviet fakes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm0nte Posted October 25 Author Share #6 Posted October 25 35 minutes ago, Anbaric said: It seems like a lot of trouble to go to, only to finish the job with crude engravings, leaving a partially visible slow speed dial socket and a flash sync that could easily have been removed. That’s true. I hope someone can provide more information about the actual manufacturing of these copies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 25 Share #7 Posted October 25 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Given that you are in Italy... can be that MANY years ago I had a short meeting with THIS camera ! 😎 It was... around 1985, a shop in Milano which at those time was rather specialized in Leitz items (I bought there my first Leica, a IIIc... shop closed some years ago) ; I was in the shop looking for some lens... and looking at their shelves noticed a chrome 250 (body only), and asked to have a look at : the owner at once told me : "there are oddities in this body... you can have it at a good price, but I don't bet at all in originality, though no Russian involvment 😉" : I handled it and the only things that I remember well is that there was not slow speed dial, and an odd synchro... : I wasn't anyway intersted in having a 250, so paid not attention to s/n and other details. Edited October 25 by luigi bertolotti 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm0nte Posted October 25 Author Share #8 Posted October 25 2 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said: Given that you are in Italy... can be that MANY years ago I had a short meeting with THIS camera ! I came across some of your replies during my research, and I was very tempted to reach out directly, but seeing how active you are, Luigi, I thought I'd wait for your reply here. Do you genuinely think this could be the same camera you saw years ago, or perhaps one from the same origin? Do you happen to have any other insights or information about its manufacturing history? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 25 Share #9 Posted October 25 (edited) 58 minutes ago, mm0nte said: ... Do you genuinely think this could be the same camera you saw years ago, or perhaps one from the same origin? I do... but also I genuinely remark tht next to 40 years have passed 😀... And given that, though a passionate Leiciste, 250 has never been a target of mine, I never collected market infos and knowledge on the matter... how many chrome 250s have been around in Italy ? Not so many, I think but as I said, I have never "tracked" them... The origin ? No idea for the same reason : but from Genova (home of Cattaneo) and Milano (Benatti), in the '50s there were surely good techncians with excellent skill on Leicas, surely able to make a 250 starting from some Leica II or III (even if... faking the s/n to match a real 250 looks a bit strange, a do it yourself 250 , in that context, should have been made for use, not to pretend/fake originality... 🤔 ) Edited October 25 by luigi bertolotti Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PG Black nickel Posted October 25 Share #10 Posted October 25 I experienced the same thing a few years ago with the same type of chrome reporter 250... But I didn't go through with the purchase because I was very suspicious about the authenticity... It came back several times on sales sites in France. Did I do the right thing? The engravings were better done and maybe it was an original?? The number was 132xxx. It is possible that it was bought by one of us...! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/414406-leica-250-gg-reporter-chrome-finish-authenticity/?do=findComment&comment=5673847'>More sharing options...
mm0nte Posted October 25 Author Share #11 Posted October 25 58 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said: even if... faking the s/n to match a real 250 looks a bit strange, a do it yourself 250 , in that context, should have been made for use, not to pretend/fake originality... 🤔 The @Anbaric theory is growing on me. The engraving could be a third party attempt to fake a good Leica Mod made by some specialist. But at the same time it's so bad that would be almost funny.. no D.R.P., wrong serial, and totally wonky 😂 To be honest I was not expecting this to be an authentic Leica 250, but at the same time I instantly understood it was based on some real stuff and I found it even more fascinating like this. It may not be as valuable as a full legit piece, but it was an absolute steal anyway 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm0nte Posted October 25 Author Share #12 Posted October 25 19 minutes ago, PG Black nickel said: I experienced the same thing a few years ago with the same type of chrome reporter 250... But I didn't go through with the purchase because I was very suspicious about the authenticity... It came back several times on sales sites in France. Did I do the right thing? The engravings were better done and maybe it was an original?? The number was 132xxx. It is possible that it was bought by one of us...! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I wonder if high-quality photos of the retail Chrome 250 even exist online? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted October 27 Share #13 Posted October 27 In the past years, I mean as long as 45/50 years ago I saw a lot made by some good craftmens I saw some 150 and also 750 views They were used by photographs, but more by employees, in some tourists places like French riviera or famous skiing places like Megeve as examples. Here is a genuine one : Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/414406-leica-250-gg-reporter-chrome-finish-authenticity/?do=findComment&comment=5676326'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 28 Share #14 Posted October 28 On 10/25/2024 at 6:13 PM, mm0nte said: I wonder if high-quality photos of the retail Chrome 250 even exist online? There is a chrome 250 visible in this. The 250 was very popular with British Seaside 'Walkies' photographers. https://gohomeonapostcard.wordpress.com/companies/barkers-cine-snaps-part-1-lowestoft/barkers-the-cameras/ William 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 29 Share #15 Posted October 29 My 1934 250FF was originally the property of Brighams of Bridlington, a seaside walking photographer. He became one of the largest of these operators and owned many 250 Reporter cameras. Mine is numbered 16 but I don't know if they were all reporters. Two of my KOOBF cassettes are also ex-Brighams and engraved as such. Unusually my Reporter comes with a 1933 Nickel Summar, rather than the usual 50/3.5 Elmar. Unfortunately it has now been away for five years being repaired. The repairer keeps promising to finish it but never does. I think I am going to have to go and take it away from him and give it to Alan Starkie to finish. I agreed with the repairer earlier this year that he would write to me with a mutually agreed schedule to complete the job but he has not done that either, so I am out of patience. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/414406-leica-250-gg-reporter-chrome-finish-authenticity/?do=findComment&comment=5677908'>More sharing options...
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