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Summarit M 90 back focuses, return vs fix?


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Off on holiday today and at the last minute the second hand summarit M I purchased has arrived. Unfortunately it back focuses by 1cm at MFD, obviously magnified at greater distances. 
 

It was second hand, send back and try again or get fixed? The cost of which is about 40% of the purchase price from a big reseller. 
 

I thought about a tele Elmarit M or voigtlander 90mm apo as an alternative but there are potential problems with all of these. 
 

I’m looking for small and light first, 2.8 or better. 
 

Anyone got any views?

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Getting it fixed makes it an expensive Summarit so I wouldn't go down that road. 

How will you be able to get anything else if you are off on holiday today? One for when you get back.

Have a good holiday!

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I have two 90s, a Summicron from 1983 and a Apo-Skopar bought recently. Both of them can be dead-on even at MFD - depending on lighting conditions, clearly visible contrast edges and my personal condition. I found my hit rate better when superimposing the images (as opposed to the cross-section method using the edge of the patch to align straight lines). In other words - identifying focus issues can be very tricky - and if so, there is no guarantee that a recalibration will solve all potential issues immediately. Further, a misalignment at MFD will not grow with distance, it typically will be absorbed by depth of field.

to conclude:

  • check focus at multiple targets and distances. Test out different focusing methods. Record hit rate. Does back focus persist? 
  • do you have a decent repair guy at hand? Leica can take long and is usually very expensive - which might eat up your savings…

In other words - if you are sure about the back focus, return the lens, but don‘t trust your first impression. 

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1 hour ago, Quarterpounder said:

Curious to read more about the (slim) Tele Elmarit 90mm.

This pretty much sums it up perfectly;

https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/90mm-f28-tele.htm

I can't remember whether Mr. Rockwell makes a mention of it or not but in some circumstances when shooting contre-jour and with the sun just out of frame the lens has a propensity for some flare.

I had never noticed it in all my years of using one but, when I tried the 'torture-test', sure enough it was there sometimes. Hardly a deal-breaker for me but I thought I'd mention it.

Philip.

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Misfocus can happen with any lens. Happened to me with an Elmarit 90/2.8 v2. My Summarit 90/2.4 is perfect though. In your shoes i would not pay an eurocent to fix that faulty lens. Just ask for a refund and find a better copy of the same lens or another 90 if you prefer, there are plenty of them on e**y. You asked about the Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8, it is a fine lens if you mean the "thin" variant i have experience with but it has one drawback, flare when strong light sources like the sun are just outside the frame. You asked about the Apo-Skopar 90/2.8 too i believe. Very good little lens with another drawback, color fringing. Compared to them the Summarit 90/2.4 has no significant drawback. Same for the Elmarit 90/2.8 v2 or if you are on a budget and/or you prefer less contrasty lenses, the Elmarit 90/2.8 v1. I have no experience with the "fat" Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8 but it is a reputed lens as well.

Edited by lct
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My Summarit 90 has perfect focus accuracy, as do my 35 & 50 Summarits (all 2.5). I also have the "fat" TeleElmarit (from 1968) which I bought with my M4 back then, and it performs as well as the Summarit, and is shorter but has a longer focus throw which takes getting used to (again - not used to it lately).

My usual practice when I find a nice piece of gear with a minor issue like this is to get it fixed. as it bugs me for such things to be left with problems.

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Thanks everyone, luckily it’s not the only lens I brought! I’ve tested across bodies and it’s the same on all. My other lenses tend to have the focal point about 66-75% of the way into the focal zone, this one is about 10% in from the front so the focal point is hazy and then the background beyond is sharp, so for portraits it’s hazy eyeball and lashes and dead sharp ear. Not ideal!

After testing, it is focus then a micro nadge back, obviously at portrait distances it’s focus and then move head back about 2” but I’m not doing that for the rest of my life! And much harder to get right at mid distances. I certainly can’t use it with my M11D!

I’ll give the seller the option of return or repair when I get back. My guess is they will want return and will then resell!

Edited by Derbyshire Man
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A lens cannot be corrected for the MFD. Only the infinity setting can be adjusted with shims. The pitch of the helicoid will make sure the MFD is correct when infinity is correct. To me your issue sounds like a problem with the infinity setting of your camera. I would investigate the rangefinder first, make sure infinity is correct and check at MFD again. It’s not uncommon your 90mm lens will show the largest backfocus. I know these problems from my own experience and have always been able to resolve them by carefully setting infinity of the rangefinder.

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Except I’ve got three bodies, including one that is straight from the factory which I haven’t touched. It’s back focusses on them all. My other lenses (4 Leica, one voigtlander) are all spot on other than the 35mm pre asph which front focusses, with my copy at the back of that front focus at f1.4 which I think is typical for that design. 
 

I’ve no doubt I could tweak the range finder for the new second hand lens but then the other 5 would be wrong.  This combined with the fact it’s second hand makes me suspect the previous owner shifted it for the same reason. 

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On 10/11/2024 at 7:04 PM, Al Brown said:

Stating the obvious: never go on holiday with an unverified, last minute used M lens purchase.
Return and get a post-2021 APO Summicron 75. It's heavens.

I’ve got more lenses and a visoflex so not a disaster. 
 

The 75 apo does look nice but there’s a bit of a delta between a £600 90mm and a £4000 75mm!

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1 hour ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I’ve got more lenses and a visoflex so not a disaster. 
 

The 75 apo does look nice but there’s a bit of a delta between a £600 90mm and a £4000 75mm!

Used 75 APOs are much cheaper

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3 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

The 75 apo does look nice but there’s a bit of a delta between a £600 90mm and a £4000 75mm!

Nice lens indeed but the Ultron 75/1.9 is a gem too. Just acquired the SC version and the Summicron tends to collect dust in its drawer since then.

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On 10/11/2024 at 5:04 PM, Al Brown said:

a post-2021 APO Summicron 75

Al - what happened in 2021 to improve that lens? I’ve owned three and all of them had/have rattling rear groups… works fine in live view but sketchy at f/2 with a rangefinder…

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34 minutes ago, PCPix said:

Al - what happened in 2021 to improve that lens? I’ve owned three and all of them had/have rattling rear groups… works fine in live view but sketchy at f/2 with a rangefinder…

No idea but all bad samples seem to predate 2020 or 2021. Mine is from 2020 (silver) and flawless. Lots of articles written here on the topic, here is one such thread:

 

Edited by Al Brown
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