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Leica R8 (and R9) stuck mirror issue


Tirpitz666

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Hi, just entered the Leica R system world and so far my experience was definitely not a lucky one: bought a first R8 body with a Motor Drive and, after just a few test shots, the mirror remained stuck in the upward position and there was no way to make it lower again. I read also on this forum that it can happen with the motors and that removing it and attaching the normal grip could solve the issue. So I did and, after some fiddling also with the aperture preview lever, the mirror got indeed unstuck. All seemed well without the motor for some test shots, so I re-intalled the Motor Drive and it also looked to work fine, but as soon as I tried to set 1/8000 just to test it, the mirror got stuck again and also by removing the motor and reinstalling the normal grip it didn't return in the normal position, so I ended up returning the camera as defective.

This week fetched another R8 from a shop, so supposedly in very good conditions and tested, with a Motor Winder. Again, first test shots without film went fine at all speeds so I removed the Winder and installed the DMR I just bought. I shot happily with it for an entire day, althouh in a couple of occasions I heard the mirror remaining stuck after the shot, but at the end coming down, so I was already fretting that something could indeed go off at some point in time and, guess what, this morning at the very first shot I took with the DMR installed, the mirror remained stuck in the upward position and the DMR kept on taking long exposures without stopping until I switched it off (hope also to not have damaged it by doing some attempts at that). Re-attaching the Winder did of course nothing to sort the problem and I don't have a normal grip to try the above-mentioned "reset" fix. So I'm now returing also this camera in hope of a fix (at least it came with a warranty).

Apart from the utter disappointment for a system that looks beautifully built, takes beautiful pics but has for sure an internal flaw of sort, what is your experience in using the R8 with a motor? Does the R9 suffer of the same "bug" so fetching one to use with with my DMR instead will anyway expose me to the same problem popping up down the line?

For now I'm finding myself with a DMR and four very nice primes and nothing to use them (apart adapting the lenses to another ML body of course, but that's not the point I guess).

Edited by Tirpitz666
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I have several R8’s and R9’s, but I do not use the motor drive as I am happy taking one photo at a time and winding by hand.  I have not had any trouble, but I also buy them in very good shape and properly working to start.  Because they cannot get repaired, I do not want one that is not in really nice condition. My suggestion is to shoot without the winder for awhile to see if the body works properly, then you can work with the motor and see if the motor is the problem.

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Hi, thank you, both camera looked pristine, both inside the mirror box and outside, and one was bought with warranty from a shop just for a case like this, but honestly I would have never expected that the issue could pop up after just one day of mild usage. It seems very strange to me that two cameras in a row in apparently good conditions experienced the same fate by total chance, there should be something at play when you are using a motor with them, even if there isn't that much literature on the web about that.

Unfortunately I bought that camera(s) to use it 99% with the DMR, so going motorless is not an option for me..

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Without offending anyone who likes the DMR, may I ask why? I had an R9 and DMR when they were introduced, and even then it was prone to synchronization issues. On top of that it is a ten megapixel APS-C camera with wonky batteries that you can't really shoot past ISO400. I guess I am not romantic about mine because I was doing a shoot once from a helicopter and it froze up completely in a way that might have been similar to what you describe (it was almost twenty years ago...I don't recall the details). I would humbly suggest you return the camera, sell the DMR and either use the R lenses on an SL camera, or sell everything and get an S006 with a lens or two. If you want CCD color and a Leica SLR with fabulous lenses, the S006 will be a much better choice. Take it from someone who has used both. I shot with the S006 for six or seven years with hardly a blip, while the DMR was extremely finicky, even when new. I know it is opinion, but I also think the image quality is dramatically better. It is usable to its top ISO (1600), has much greater dynamic range and purer colors. In my opinion it is still the best camera Leica has ever made, and I say that as someone who used the S2, S007, S3, SL2, SL2S, M10, M10M, M9, M8, DMR, Q2 and most everything else. My personal order would be S006, SL2/SL2S, S2, M9, M10M, S007, S3, Q2, M10, M8, DMR. The order is not necessarily the order in which I would want them, but how much I enjoyed them at the time, or how much of a boost they gave to my work when they came.

Edited by Stuart Richardson
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No offense at all :) 

Everything that you mentioned is true and I have no doubt that the S006 would provide a much better user experience and IQ that the "finicky" DMR with all the related issues.

First of all, I liked quite a lot what I've seen from the DMR so far, both in terms of sheer details of the pics that you can still get out of it (especially considering that is just an APS-H 10 MP sensor) and color signature, which is definitely not "pure" but it is quite peculiar and, to me, quite likeable when you are looking for an alternate look in your pics, especially SOOC. You can of course add the uniqueness of the object and that analog-digital transformation thing (I'm not writing off shooting some film with the R8 as well, just not for the majority of the time). Add to that my admittedly soft spot for those "oldies but goodie" and wacky cameras and you have your recipe for disaster 🙂

P.S. the S006 with three decent primes would still cost me much more than the DMR+used R8+three pretty good R primes and I also already have two other MF cameras, just not Leica ones, which I'm pretty happy with (one being the super-quirky Mamiya ZD, which I'm totally in love with). This was just an admittedly awkward way for me to enter the Leica world (never had any particular interest in rangefinders, so the M system it's not for me). 

Edited by Tirpitz666
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I took a lot of pictures that I liked with the DMR, and the color did have a lovely feel to it, that is definitely different than most these days. At the time the biggest appeal for me was that I could use the R9 for both film and digital, and there was no other way to shoot Leica on digital. This was before most adapters and before Leitax mounts. I definitely understand the appeal of the lenses and the R9. I would also understand the appeal of the DMR too, if it were more user friendly. But as soon as the M8 and D3 came out on the market, I sold the DMR in favor of the D3 and Leitax mounts for my favorite lenses. But the S was another universe. I sold my whole Leica R kit, all the Nikon stuff and a bunch besides to barely cover the cost of the S2 and two lenses. But for me it was absolutely worth it. That said, this has been my main business and vocation, so reliability and consistency is important. And I cannot understate how pissed I was when the R9/DMR simply just stopped working in the middle of an important and expensive helicopter shoot. I was just lucky I had the R6 and some film with me, otherwise it would have been a total loss. Mine also suffered from a stuck pixel bright line across the frame that started shortly after I had taken delivery of it...only around 600 frames in. I had taken delivery and then gone on a residency in Japan, so it took more than a month to get Leica to take the camera, replace it and then send it back to me in Japan. So I lost a month of digital shooting while I was there on a three month residency too, which was not great. When it was working it was very good for the time, but in my experience the "when it was working" was not that reliable. It seems you have found the same.

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52 minutes ago, Tirpitz666 said:

This was just an admittedly awkward way for me to enter the Leica world (never had any particular interest in rangefinders, so the M system it's not for me). 

I "entered the Leica world" in 1968, coming from other SLRs, with an M4, then adding a Leicaflex SL as I was so used to SLRs. Then the Leicaflex needed service I sent it to Leica (US) and it was never fully "right" after that. So I added other brands of SLRs again and had better luck with them and their wider variety of (affordable) lenses. Later tried an R4, and while it was nice to use and produced nice results, it tended to have problems too. So I've always considered Leica a rangefinder brand,

I did add an R8 and R7 several years ago, and really came to like the R8 once I got used to the size. but it is just for film. I use my R (and old Pentax lenses) on other brands of mirrorless bodies for digital, and see no reason to try Leica for anything but rangefinders. 

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I can't really add any advice @Tirpitz666 regarding why your R8's are locking up, but as I read it if you've tried two body's and had the same fault isn't the common denominator the motor drive? If you could get another R8 or R9 and avoid using the motor drive and if it doesn't lock up you may suspect it's the motor drive killing the camera.

As for a digital alternative to use R lenses I originally converted mine to the Nikon F mount with a simple flange adapters that are now available from Urth (similar to the Leitax adapter and far cheaper) and it's a DIY job. Then I decided I wanted an R9 body for film use so converted them back to R mount to use on that, so now use an R/Z adapter to use the lenses on my Nikon Z7. Equally you could get an SL and use an R/L adapter.

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Thank you, I also use those very nice R glass with my Z8 with really satisfying results (and with the added bonuses that the manual focus is of course way more precise and they get stabilized), but it's a CMOS sensor, not a CCD, the rendering is of course different and the whole "experience" as well, shooting on an R8/9 with the DMR is much more similar to shooting film in terms of ISO limitation, operational speed/focusing and basically nailing exposure with very little room for error.

I'll try another and last one body, if it fails also this due to the motor "interaction" guess I'll give up "the experiment" and will just stick to film..

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just an update for whom might still be interested 🙂 So far looks like the third R8 is holding up and is working well with the DMR, which by the way I'm pretty fond of, to me already the JPEGs that come out of it are some of the very best I've ever seen in terms of how colors are somehow always very pleasing and the fine details are rendered. Skin tones look quite amazing as well.

Regarding the stuck mirror issue, I've found on an obscure Italian forum a post of a person that was reporting that early batches of R8 (unfortunately he didn't report the serial numbers affected) had a firmware bug that could lead to stuck mirror issues while using the DMR. I personally did not take notice of the first two body's serial number so I cannot say if that's the reason of the malfunctioning (on one of the two I only installed the Motor Drive and not the DMR), the only thing that I know that my current body has a 243xxx number and is somewhat in the middle (a bit before) of the batches produced. Let's hope it continues to hold up.. 🤞

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