Buying a M8 in NYC

[Daniel Ortego]

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Personally, I would order on-line from a neighboring state if taxes can be avoided, such as a hotel address. Then I would carry the camera in a camera bag and discard or mail the empty box home. Since the camera is made in your country I doubt that customs when give you much of a hassle.

Regards,

[Photoskeptic]

I have bought most of my Leica gear from Photo Village. However, I recently returned a lens for partial exchange for a higher priced version and got shafted on the debit side of the exchange. When I called about it, the person I needed to talk to was always conveniently "out". I'll look elsewhere when the next digital body comes out.

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[Laki]

Personally, I would order on-line from a neighboring state if taxes can be avoided, such as a hotel address. Then I would carry the camera in a camera bag and discard or mail the empty box home. Since the camera is made in your country I doubt that customs when give you much of a hassle.

Regards,

 

as i stated before, at least here in germany not paying taxes is illegal, might be different for you in the states. and taxes can be applied even years later.

 

i'm really amazed when people buy a camera for a couple of thousands and try to avoid taxes in such a illegal way. if someone has to take criminal steps (yes, cheating on taxes is like that) to be able to afford something then you should better think not to buy it at all.

[2Bébèrt]

Throw away the box, dress it in a old brown Luigi case, stick some gaffer tape on the bright spot's, screw on an old lens, take some classic NY snapshots and walk trough customs as empty handed as you came..perhaps just declearing your new Ralph Lauren sweater .

 

and don't forget to enjoy the trip.

 

if I hadn't already had mine.

[redfalo]

Hi Folks,

 

first of all many thanks regarding the best Leica stores in NYC. This forum really is a great place (at least the international part of it...).

 

Regarding the tax issue: Well, Laki, on the one hand side you´re right. It would be illegal and I´m a law abiding person usually. On the other hand I´m paying so much income tax, VAT and ... you name it-tax here in Germany that my bad conscience would not be too big. And the probability getting away with it looks rather good.

 

More important for my hesitation is the fact that buying the body abroad would mean having no dealer around the corner where I could complain/swap the camera in case of technical trouble...

 

I have to check out real prices here to find out how big the premium for this kind of service would be. There are some reports in the German speaking forum that the recent price increase for the M8 does not really show up in the market. Allegedly a major Leica dealer in Cologne sells new M8s for arround 3800 Euro. If this is true buying in America wouldn´t make too much sense.

 

I´m a little bit surprised that there are no comments regarding the back-focus-question. Is it no issue anymore? Or are you tired of discussing it?

 

 

Anyway, thanks again for all this help!

Olaf

[bayerische]

Sure, but for a camera the customs "guys" thinks cost 600 dollars, they are not going to do that amount of trouble. Maybe if you get caught with a briefcase of M8's Contrary to many peoples beliefs the customs are not there to catch us with M8's, but with, alcohol, stolen property, drugs, "medications", terrorists and guns

 

 

you will have to pay the 19% vat in germany, but the customs website in germany will give you also informations if there is any other tax.

 

and for all those cool guys who dont care to pay taxes while importing, you should be aware that every camera is registered in the country where it is sold, so through the serial number it can be always be checked where you bought it. and not paying taxes is at least here in germany a kind of criminal act and is punished hard. oh, i forgot, the guys at the customs for sure dont have internet and never read through forums where people ask questions like this one

 

btw, taxes can be raised also years later, just in case you get checked at the customs you will have to prove that you paid taxes if it is imported, this applies at least to germany. thats why you can get from the german 'zoll' a paper called 'Vereinfachte Nämlichkeitsbescheinigung'.

 

for more informations about the german regulations you can have a look here (its in german): Kameraausrüstung und der Zoll, so funktioniert es! - DSLR-Forum

[richam]

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More important for my hesitation is the fact that buying the body abroad would mean having no dealer around the corner where I could complain/swap the camera in case of technical trouble...

 

Olaf,

 

I believe you don't need a dealer. My experience is that Leica in Solms fully honors world wide purchases. In early 2003, I was living in Germany and covered under the NATO status of forces agreements, giving me certain tax free privileges. I mail ordered a Leica Digilux 2 from the US, paid no taxes, and sent the registration paperwork to Leica USA. All this was completely legal. By late 2005, I had retired in Greece. The sensor failed after 2.5 years' use, so I contacted Solms. I shipped the camera to them from Greece, and they replaced the sensor under their extended warranty program. At that time, there was a shortage of replacement sensors, which caused delays in repair. They handled a change of return shipping address (from my summer place to permanent home) without any problems, and even provided me an extra battery to ease the sting of waiting.

[carstenw]

I think it rather unlikely that German customs staff would not recognise a Leica. Germans are generally well aware of their premium brands, even when they don't own one. I have never heard Germans talk as much, from toddler to grannie, as when the latest Mercedes 500 SL came out. Everyone had an opinion, everyone knew what it was about. The Leica is similar.

 

Personally, I would recommend finding the best deal you can in Germany, and forget about the illegal smuggling and all that. The difference isn't worth the hassle, and having a good relationship with a dealer in Germany can be worth gold, if something should go wrong. My dealer sold me the M8 at the standard price (I think he didn't have much choice), but he has since given me some fantastic deals on second-hand lenses and other accessories, and he has sent back the camera and lenses which needed adjustments, at no extra charge, every single time it has been needed (and it has been).

[Laki]

Sure, but for a camera the customs "guys" thinks cost 600 dollars, they are not going to do that amount of trouble. Maybe if you get caught with a briefcase of M8's Contrary to many peoples beliefs the customs are not there to catch us with M8's, but with, alcohol, stolen property, drugs, "medications", terrorists and guns

 

the custom guys for sure dont know anything about leica looks like you think there are only stupid people working there, chasing alcohol smugglers...

[Olsen]

Tax levels are much higher here in Europe compared to USA. Because they include services that you americans have to buy in a private market. Like healthcare, lavish pensions, education for your kids through university. After the recent drastic dollar fall: Some of us pay only in taxes what some of you americans make a year. Here in Norway taxes on salaries varies from 30 - 55% -while most ordinary earners pay around 40%. In addition we pay a sales tax of 20%, hefty taxes on petrol (we pay more in petrol tax than you americans pay for petrol alone), alcohol, tobacco cars, etc.

 

We are obliged to buy things 'tax free' overseas when on business trips of vacations, up until 10.000 NOK (about 1,800 $) per person. (Just recently increased from 5000) But the chance of being stopped at the customs are very small. When a customs officer stops you at Oslo Airport he is looking for drugs. He hasn't the time to get into a quarrel with a tourists about the cost of certain photo gear is within the limit or not. Only if you have your suitcase full of camera equipment - or other things, that is obviously not for 'consumation', but something you are suspected of to sell/make business on, you might be made to pay VAT for your goods.

 

The norwegian Leica dealer/importer is well aware of that a large number of all M8's in Norway are bought overseas by tourists. Still the dealer is helpfull sending your M8 to Solms for servicing etc.

[bayerische]

the custom guys for sure dont know anything about leica looks like you think there are only stupid people working there, chasing alcohol smugglers...

 

No I don't think they are stupid. You said they are stupid.

 

And a testament to them not being stupid is that they can get easier catches than a German with an unpacked Leica hanging over his shoulder. A case full of Rolexes still wrapped in the US store bag unopened, and reciept found in the carriers wallet, now this is an easy catch.

 

But they are not hunting grey-imported Leicas. And a German with a Leica is not a suspect.

 

I walked past customs with my in Finland bought, tax, vat, etc payed M8 hanging over my shoulder arriving from the US. They did not take a look at me. Why would they think I bought it in the US? And what about watches... The ones that get caught are the ones buying them as gifts. If you walk by customs with a 20.000euro Patek on your arm, they won't notice it. Carry it in a store-bag with PATEK written on it, they might want to take a look at what is inside the bag.

 

We had a dumb politican in Finland that got caught having a lot of expensive watches bought in Switzerland. New, unopened boxes with the receipts in his wallet. Kinda hard to explain...

[benkelley]

Off the ethical topic, you could buy it from Robert White, have it shipped to your NYC hotel, and then sell the extra Zeiss lens, either directly in New York at a shop or on the web. A bunch of steps, but you would more than make up for whatever shipping cost from England by reselling the Zeiss...

Another idea for the pot... I'm assuming you'd avoid the British VAT that way.

 

Ben

[robsteve]

Another thing to keep in mind is that some insurance companies will not pay claims on items bought without paying duty on them. A few years back I had a claim and the adjuster asked if the item was bought outside of the country andif I had proof I paid duty on the item. I had the proof (original receipt) the item was bought locally and they paid the claim. I now make sure I keep the customs paperwork for any items bought outside of the country.

 

I suppose the insurance companies position is they do not pay claims on smuggled or illegally acquired items.

[bayerische]

Another thing to keep in mind is that some insurance companies will not pay claims on items bought without paying duty on them. A few years back I had a claim and the adjuster asked if the item was bought outside of the country andif I had proof I paid duty on the item. I had the proof (original receipt) the item was bought locally and they paid the claim. I now make sure I keep the customs paperwork for any items bought outside of the country.

 

I suppose the insurance companies position is they do not pay claims on smuggled or illegally acquired items.

 

My insurance company don't work this way. Insurance company politics varies alot between countries.

[Laki]

No I don't think they are stupid. You said they are stupid.

 

And a testament to them not being stupid is that they can get easier catches than a German with an unpacked Leica hanging over his shoulder. A case full of Rolexes still wrapped in the US store bag unopened, and reciept found in the carriers wallet, now this is an easy catch.

 

But they are not hunting grey-imported Leicas. And a German with a Leica is not a suspect.

 

I walked past customs with my in Finland bought, tax, vat, etc payed M8 hanging over my shoulder arriving from the US. They did not take a look at me. Why would they think I bought it in the US? And what about watches... The ones that get caught are the ones buying them as gifts. If you walk by customs with a 20.000euro Patek on your arm, they won't notice it. Carry it in a store-bag with PATEK written on it, they might want to take a look at what is inside the bag.

 

We had a dumb politican in Finland that got caught having a lot of expensive watches bought in Switzerland. New, unopened boxes with the receipts in his wallet. Kinda hard to explain...

 

1. i dont see where i wrote that they are stupid

2. if you would take your time and read what i wrote before you might understand what i meant

3. as i stated before, you can get checked at the customs at any time (and taxes plus punishment can be applied even years later) and it's always up to you to prove that you paid taxes or that your didnt import the camera/lenses

4. no matter what they chase for, i did have around 600 flights within the last 5 years and so i m used to have my customs papers ready because when going through the checks my camera bag is maybe 1 in 100 flights not checked and i had for sure a minimum of 20 times to show the prove that my camera gear is properly declared and i bought it in germany.

5. for some it might be some kind of sport to cheat on taxes, but its a fact that it is a major crime no matter how you try to cover it up or make it look ok

[bayerische]

1. i dont see where i wrote that they are stupid

2. if you would take your time and read what i wrote before you might understand what i meant

 

You made an assumption that I think Customs officials are stupid. I still don't think they are stupid. You shouldn't assumpt so much.

 

3. as i stated before, you can get checked at the customs at any time (and taxes plus punishment can be applied even years later) and it's always up to you to prove that you paid taxes or that your didnt import the camera/lenses

 

True. It's all about taking a risk. A very small risk, if you for example carry your M8 over your shoulder.

 

 

4. no matter what they chase for, i did have around 600 flights within the last 5 years and so i m used to have my customs papers ready because when going through the checks my camera bag is maybe 1 in 100 flights not checked and i had for sure a minimum of 20 times to show the prove that my camera gear is properly declared and i bought it in germany.

 

600 flights in 5 years is terrible So after the baggage claim your camera bag is checked on 99% of your flights?! Where do you fly from/to? Never been checked. Now do you carry all your reciepts of your camera gear with you?

 

 

5. for some it might be some kind of sport to cheat on taxes, but its a fact that it is a major crime no matter how you try to cover it up or make it look ok

 

Major crime is to over react in my opinion, if someone wishes to buy an M8 in the states and get it a bit cheaper, I'm not judging. But a crime it is.

[Laki]

600 flights in 5 years is terrible So after the baggage claim your camera bag is checked on 99% of your flights?! Where do you fly from/to. Never been checked. Now do you carry all your reciepts of your camera gear with you?

 

my camera bag is usually checked when it goes through the hand luggage check and checked again when returning to germany.

 

i dont need to carry all receipts, because as i said before, i have a paper from the german customs which is the prove that i paid all taxes and this paper is always updated when i buy something new.

 

oh and yes, too much flights the last years...

[dfarkas]

I originally planned on buying an M8 when I went to Florida this autumn, but instead I bought it back home in Finland, reason I couldn't find a reliable source in Florida. The shops I emailed never replied. Now, I bet you are not going to experiance the same problem in NYC.

 

 

Many of the shops in Florida have closed. We are now the largest dealer in the state. Next time you're in town, drop in. Our store, Dale Photo & Digital, is located in Hollywood, about 5 minutes from the Fort Lauderdale airport (and about 35 minutes north of Miami Beach).

 

David

[bayerische]

my camera bag is usually checked when it goes through the hand luggage check and checked again when returning to germany.

 

 

Yes, but this is not customs looking for goods, this is a security check, right?

My bag is always screened here aswell, but here they actually are hunting for bombs, knives, guns and Bin Ladin.

 

I'm talking about the Customs after baggage claim where one is supposed to declare or not to declare any goods bought in our example outside the EU. Here I have never been checked.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[bayerische]

Many of the shops in Florida have closed. We are now the largest dealer in the state. Next time you're in town, drop in. Our store, Dale Photo & Digital, is located in Hollywood, about 5 minutes from the Fort Lauderdale airport (and about 35 minutes north of Miami Beach).

 

David

 

I think I saw your shop when I drove trough Hollywood. Do you sell Leica?