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Dan States

A new Noctilux is needed (deserved)

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If Leica is doing this I think it is more of a redesign of the glass in the lens.

It seems, as I read it, that the current Nocti uses the same glass in the same arrangement as one made 30 years ago. the only thing that's changed is the outside body of the lens. The glass and arrangement of that glass hasn't changed for a LONG time.

But hey what do I know.

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The current Noctilux delights/frustrates/impoverishes in roughly equal measure. I do not believe that some new asph/floating element/apo/blah/blah lens would cut the mustard as the present undisputed world champion does. Chances are, it would be a tiny bit sharper (now and then) but a lot more boring (most of the time).

 

Happy Christmas to all f1 users...

 

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I assumed valtof was talking about the old Canon 50/1.2 RF lens which would probably be significantly less than 1/10 the price (and smaller and lighter of course). Quality wise - I have no clue...

 

Ooops. You're probably right. In which case, I stand corrected on price (for used lenses of both varieties--Canon doesn't make it anymore, right?). As for build quality and image quality, I don't know enough about the Canon to comment except that if it indeed were in the Nocti's league it's a shame they no longer make it

.

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If Leica does produce a new f0.95 Noctilux, wouldn't the argument be the same as that for the f1.2 mentioned above in that it's not much faster in the former case? Unless, of course, it decides to introdue better corrections and an aspherical element. Or would it be more of a prestige thing to retake the "lead" in terms of having the fastest current production lens for consumer use? Then again, even at f1.0, it's still the fastest current production lens. Considering the old Canon f0.95 "Dream" lens is actually closer to f1.X (somewhere between 1.0 and 1.1, I think) when actually compared to light meter measurements (or so I have read), any new f0.95 offering should at least be a true f0.95.

 

The Noctilux seems to work well when it works well. I don't think the prices of current Noctilux lenses would go down that much unless a new version is clearly superior in image rendering, equal or lower in price, and more readily available for purchase. I don't think the price would be equal or lower unless the cost of manufacturing the new lens is somehow significantly cheaper, so given the relative rarity and low production rate of any old or current Noctilux, prices shouldn't really take a nosedive. Just my initial thoughts though.

 

Problem is that aspheric elements do nothing to help with focus shift. Witness the constant complaining about the focus shift on both the 35 and 50 luxes. The noctilux is all about drawing style and the focus shift is just something to deal with. You certainly can send your lens and body to a competent repair service like DAG in the US and Kindermann in Canada. Once they are done with it you will likely have an f 1.0 or 1.2 lens at the best it is going to get. Leica definitely does not need a new version with aspheres because the very drawing style that makes the Nocti so precious will likely be very compromised. If you simply need an extra half stop, put on the Lux and bump the ISO a half stop! Just my humble opinion and YMMV

 

Woody Spedden

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Frankly, the main reason why people want the Noctilux is that its performance is what it is, i.e. distinctly non-modern.They do definitely not want a Noctilux with 'better' performance, except maybe one with less focus shift. And the reason behind the current rush on the Noctilux is of course the conviction that it will not remain long in the Leica lineup. How many different 50mm lenses can a company offer simultaneously? Two, I presume.

 

As for practicality, the current Summilux answers all needs on a digital camera, and with excellent performance too. Mine evinces very little focus shift, probably because of the floating element's correction of spherical aberration. Maybe Leica can look into a focus shift compensated 35mm Summilux?

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Again - from what I have heard why they are working on a new Nocti is mainly, that they do only have components left to build a few more - and these components are not being produced any longer (I assume this relates mainly to some of the special glass and lenses used in the Nocti).

 

So why not start with a new design which is kind of appropriate to current state of the art as well as production, also maybe allowing for cheaper production of a new Nocti, which is same or higher quality - this is at least the minimum what I would expect.

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Lars, I think the reason people want the Nocti is because it's seen to be 'cutting edge' in terms of the aperture, if not performance. There certainly seems to be a lot more chatter about the Nocti now than there used to be before the M8 hit the scene.

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I think, what people want is a Noctilux that 1) is more focusing-reliable on a digital camera and don't have to be sent to and fro Solms all the time, 2) and is cheaper.

 

When The Noctilux cost 3,500 dollars the Canon lense - which is better, larger, more complex and with gadgets like Autofocus and gold laid contacts delivering even aparture settings to the camera, the Canon 50 mm 1,0L cost 2,500 dollars. But this was when the US government was decent people and the dollar had the value close to the double of today.

 

I am sure that also a Canon 1,0L - that will be 100% focusing-reliable would cost close to 5,000 dollars today. So, they have made a not fully so demanding and ambitious step by replacing it with a 50 mm 1,2L - which is far better than both it's old 50 mm 1,0L and the Leica 50 mm 1,0 Noctilux. It could well be that the current M-bayonette system does not have small enough tollerances to handle a real 50 mm 1,0 lense. This constant readjusting and 'sending lenses to and fro Solms' that does not help seem to confirm that.

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I think, what people want is a Noctilux that 1) is more focusing-reliable on a digital camera and don't have to be sent to and fro Solms all the time, 2) and is cheaper.

 

When The Noctilux cost 3,500 dollars the Canon lense - which is better, larger, more complex and with gadgets like Autofocus and gold laid contacts delivering even aparture settings to the camera, the Canon 50 mm 1,0L cost 2,500 dollars. But this was when the US government was decent people and the dollar had the value close to the double of today.

 

I am sure that also a Canon 1,0L - that will be 100% focusing-reliable would cost close to 5,000 dollars today. So, they have made a not fully so demanding and ambitious step by replacing it with a 50 mm 1,2L - which is far better than both it's old 50 mm 1,0L and the Leica 50 mm 1,0 Noctilux. It could well be that the current M-bayonette system does not have small enough tollerances to handle a real 50 mm 1,0 lense. This constant readjusting and 'sending lenses to and fro Solms' that does not help seem to confirm that.

 

whatever, mines only been to germany when i was working with it there. nocti is a fantastic lens for people who shoot things other than charts. im not looking for perfection-how boring. i like something unique personally. i shoot holgas for f&(( sake..b

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..But sure, the Noctilux has it's qualities...

 

nice shot-subjective of course. so lets see the old canon 50 f1.0 that is "better"....b

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whatever, mines only been to germany when i was working with it there. nocti is a fantastic lens for people who shoot things other than charts. im not looking for perfection-how boring. i like something unique personally. i shoot holgas for f&(( sake..b

 

 

My Noctilux is backfocusing with about 10 cm at 2 meters distance on my M8 and possibly somewhat less on my MP (I havn't tried it on my Zeiss Ikon yet). It has been to Solms once already. - While my Canon 50 mm 1,0L is dead on. In most instances, even with AF.

 

The Canon is a hand grenade like construction weighing 985 g construction with 11 glas elements with USM autofocus, gold laid contacts and all. The Noctilux, even though it is heavy, it feels ever so little more feeble compared to other Leica glas with only 7 elements weighing 630 g.

 

It is paramount to understand that it is not always that Leica has higher quality lenses that they are more expensive. But the lower production/sales-volumes play an important part too. Take the Canon EF 16-35 mm 2,8L; it's about as good as the WATE. To 1/3 of the price. With AF and aparture data transmission to the camera included.

 

Just before the latest price increase, it seems, the 16-35 mm 2,8L/1Ds II and M8/WATE combo cost about the same. I think that Leica should try to keep it as a goal to be able to price their M8/WATE combo to the same price as the 16-35 mm 2,8L/1Ds III. At least. these are the two best digital wide angle camera-combos on the market.

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these are the two best digital wide angle camera-combos on the market.

 

D3 + 14-24mm combo seems to be making some waves.

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nice shot-subjective of course. so lets see the old canon 50 f1.0 that is "better"....b

 

The 'quality' of the pictures of the Canon 50 mm 1,0L is about the same as the Leica 50 mm 1,0 Noctilux. - Which isn't all that much sharpness compared to other Leica/ Canon alternatives. But the Canon is easier to shoot with since you don't have to compensate for the 10 cm backfocus. I'll come back to you with a sample.

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Ooops. You're probably right. In which case, I stand corrected on price (for used lenses of both varieties--Canon doesn't make it anymore, right?). As for build quality and image quality, I don't know enough about the Canon to comment except that if it indeed were in the Nocti's league it's a shame they no longer make it .

 

Hi, the old Canon 50 f1.2 rangefinder lens is very soft, I have one which came attached to another camera I bought. I consider the screw to M bayonet adaptor it had on it to be more valuable than the lens........

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My Noctilux is backfocusing with about 10 cm at 2 meters distance on my M8 and possibly somewhat less on my MP (I havn't tried it on my Zeiss Ikon yet). It has been to Solms once already. - While my Canon 50 mm 1,0L is dead on. In most instances, even with AF.

 

The Canon is a hand grenade like construction weighing 985 g construction with 11 glas elements with USM autofocus, gold laid contacts and all. The Noctilux, even though it is heavy, it feels ever so little more feeble compared to other Leica glas with only 7 elements weighing 630 g.

 

It is paramount to understand that it is not always that Leica has higher quality lenses that they are more expensive. But the lower production/sales-volumes play an important part too. Take the Canon EF 16-35 mm 2,8L; it's about as good as the WATE. To 1/3 of the price. With AF and aparture data transmission to the camera included.

 

Just before the latest price increase, it seems, the 16-35 mm 2,8L/1Ds II and M8/WATE combo cost about the same. I think that Leica should try to keep it as a goal to be able to price their M8/WATE combo to the same price as the 16-35 mm 2,8L/1Ds III. At least. these are the two best digital wide angle camera-combos on the market.

 

I am a bit surprised by this assertion. I have both the combinations you mention and in my examples the M8/WATE combination is noticeably superior and very much nicer to use due to being so much smaller and lighter.

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D3 + 14-24mm combo seems to be making some waves.

 

Sure. Now that Nikon also comes with full frame digital SLRs Nikon must modernize their wide angle portofolio too. Guess there will be a lot of Nikon users with old and lovable glas that will get their share of disappoinment when they see how this old glas work on FF-DSLRs. Not a small business opportunity for Nikon, of cause. - As a new Noctilux will be for Leica.

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I am a bit surprised by this assertion. I have both the combinations you mention and in my examples the M8/WATE combination is noticeably superior and very much nicer to use due to being so much smaller and lighter.

 

I have both combinations too. I agree with you that the M8/WATE combination is smaller and lighter. - Which is important and valuable. At first glance at 100% in PS, the Leica combo looks better. Particularly in the corners. But if you, in all fairness, crop away 1,33 of the Canon file and use aparture 4,0 you have comparable file to the Leica alternative. At 160 ASA they are very close. Very!

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The 'quality' of the pictures of the Canon 50 mm 1,0L is about the same as the Leica 50 mm 1,0 Noctilux. - Which isn't all that much sharpness compared to other Leica/ Canon alternatives. But the Canon is easier to shoot with since you don't have to compensate for the 10 cm backfocus. I'll come back to you with a sample.

 

My Nocti does not have any backfocus on the M8 , I am using it between 1.0 - 2.8 - absolutely no problems.

 

But I use the magnifier on the finder plus I found that I need my glasses if I have the magnifier attached. That does not make it much easier to shoot, but focus is just right on the point.

 

Maybe a C would work easier here :-)

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