Is it a good idea to swap summilux 35 FLE with SR

[aficionados]

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Hi

I have owned a silver chrome Summilux 35 FLE 11675 (not the latest close focus version), for about 3-ish years. But I found I rarely use it due to its bulky size. It’s a perfect copy without obvious IQ flaws except a tiny bit loose of focus ring.

A local dealer recently offered a brand new Steel Rim reissue to swap my FLE with no cash in or out.

I adore the size and aesthetic appearance of the SR, but I don’t know too much about it in terms of characteristics and rendering. I read some reviews and feedbacks seem to be mixed, albeit some QC issues like wobbly focus ring, focus shift, round hood causing vignetting etc.

Do you think it’s a good idea to have the swap assuming the SR copy I will have will be flawless? I cannot keep both FLE and SR.

Thanks.

[DigitalHeMan]

From what I've heard from other users, the SR has its own character, but is not as sharp as the Summilux wide open. Do you need f/1.4? Another alternative if you don't like the size of the Summilux would be to move to the Summicron 35mm ASPH.

Additionally, if he's prepared to swap a second hand lens for a new lens, you're reducing the value of your asset, as the new lens will also lose value once it leaves the shop......

 

[Jeff S]

Welcome. How have you managed to acquire all your gear over last several years without posting here?!

Strictly from a trade standpoint, this seems a healthy offer, as a minty black 35 FLE v.1 would currently yield about $1200 lower offer from US dealers. But the rarity of the silver version might suggest a private sale instead. 

Personally, I would not like the infinity lock on the Steel Rim, and would certainly test the lens before making any decision.  

Jono reviewed the lens, and there are many discussions here that can be searched.

 

Jeff

[Robert Blanko]

IMHO, it strongly depends on what you expect from your SR at apertures not larger than f2.0 or even 2.8.

If you expect crispy sharp images at those apertures, forget about the SR. If you however expect to have a kind of vintage glow, the SR could be your friend.

The flexibility of the SR is that the character changes with the aperture. Thus, you have two lenses.

At f5.6 or f8 it is actually surprisingly good if you don’t pixel peep the extreme corners. I used it on my last trip to Oslo as single lens and was quite satisfied.

I don’t own the 35 Summilux ASPH, only the 35 APO, but I would expect the sharpness of the 35 Lux wide open is similar to the 50 Lux ASPH.

 

Edited September 8, 2024 by Robert Blanko
Typo

[aficionados]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Welcome. How have you managed to acquire all your gear over last several years without posting here?!

Strictly from a trade standpoint, this seems a healthy offer, as a minty black 35 FLE v.1 would currently yield about $1200 lower offer from US dealers. But the rarity of the silver version might suggest a private sale instead. 

Personally, I would not like the infinity lock on the Steel Rim, and would certainly test the lens before making any decision.  

Jono reviewed the lens, and there are many discussions here that can be searched.

 

Jeff

Many years ago, maybe around 2018 I had an account here but after sold my Q2 during Covid maybe around 2021, I stopped coming here and now I forgot the username along with its email address associated, so I created a new one.

I currently have a M10-R and a few M lenses such as :

35: LLL 35/f2, 8 elements; summilux 35 FLE

50: LLL Elcan; APO summicron; Noctilux 1.2 reissue

Among those Summilux 35 FLE is the least used one. I travel a lot both leisure and business and I like to carry light, therefore I value compactness.

I didn’t know silver chrome version of summilux 35 FLE is rarer than its black counterparty, I thought both are widely available with silver maybe a couple of hundreds dollars more expensive.

Anyhow, I have a bad feeling that me being tempted to this trade has nothing to do with the lenses itself but rather a GAS attack. Especially nothing really I dislike FLE so much so that I would risk buying an unfamiliar SR.

Maybe I should cool down for a couple of days before making the move. Jono’s review is insightful, but it didn’t help me make decisions though .

Edited September 8, 2024 by aficionados

[Jeff S]

9 minutes ago, aficionados said:

 

Anyhow, I have a bad feeling that me being tempted to this trade has nothing to do with the lenses itself but rather a GAS attack. Especially nothing really I dislike FLE so much so that I would risk buying an unfamiliar SR.

Maybe I should cool down for a couple of days before making the move. Jono’s review is insightful, but it didn’t help me make decisions though .

I was being humorous/sarcastic about asking for purchase advice here; something I never personally do, despite daily posting. I assess my needs (and wants), and conduct my own assessments using gear and making prints.  Others have different approaches.  Whatever suits you, which based on your above comment, suggests some introspection… and practical decision making.

Jeff

[darlesch]

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I used to own the FLE which I sold and now I own the 35 SR.

I do not regret selling the FLE. The IQ of the SR when stopped down is just fine for me and like you, I like the weight of the SR at 197 grams which makes it portable and enjoyable to carry. I use this lens a lot for single lens single body trips. For example, I took this to Disney World with my family, even on the slow rides, and it was wonderful when stopped down and with its character wide open. As one said, you really have two lenses in one. There are times I only shoot f/8 for a day and it functions just like any other stopped down lens, and at f/1.4 you should know what you are getting with the soft look. Do I miss the FLE at f/1.4? No. Contrary to what others feel, for me, f/1.4 is sharp enough for my taste with the SR.

A caveat though is that you should check if the lens is calibrated well to your rangefinder. For my copy, it came back focused out of the box at f/1.4 (I’m not talking about focus shift, which is inherent to this lens). A repair at Wetzlar made the lens perfect and spot on. You don’t have to worry about wobbly aperture rings or tightness near infinity anymore as they fixed this in recent production runs, assuming your dealer has one made in 2024. 

The 35 SR is probably a lens I will never sell. Keep in mind I have the 35 APO which complements this lens perfectly. However, you might find it interesting that I have not taken the APO out from my dry cabinet in some time, preferring the light weight of the SR. 

I don’t want to make any decisions for you but a used 35 FLE can be found for 3000 USD in Fred Miranda. A new SR is more than that. I’d say your dealer is offering you a good deal. Is it the right trade for you? For some perspective, I went through a Leica midlife crisis and realized I was done with heavy lenses. I sold my Summiluxes and Noctilux and made the switch to the Summicrons / Summarit / SR / Summaron and couldn’t be happier. 

[pedaes]

3 hours ago, aficionados said:

Do you think it’s a good idea

Before you decide I would suggest you take time to watch this. It covers SR and comparison with FLE. It is easy to forget how special the FLE is.

 

Edited September 8, 2024 by pedaes

[TheEyesHaveIt]

I bought the SR this summer because I wanted something smaller than my FLE - and because I wanted to try out the unique rendering qualities. Fast forward a few months and I am really enjoying the SR, so much so that I will likely be selling the FLE at some point soon. I compared shots of the same subject (on a tripod) at various apertures between the two lenses and the SR matches the FLE at like f4/f5.6 and beyond. And for faster apertures, the SR gives a very distinct look, so it is like two lenses in one (as some have said). It all depends on what you want and how fast you tend to shoot - and if that distinct look is going to get tiresome after a while for your purposes. For my purposes of travel photography, the SR was great and much easier to carry in a small bag.

[69xchange]

I have both and to be honest, I prefer the SR due to its double personality lens. If you don’t often shoot wide open with the FLE, then you won’t be missing anything by taking up on the trade since when stopped down, both lens perform similarly. 

In addition, a used SR still cost more than a used FLE v1 here in North America. Personally, I would take the trade especially for a brand new lens. 

[patrickcolpron]

16 hours ago, aficionados said:

I have owned a silver chrome Summilux 35 FLE 11675 (not the latest close focus version), for about 3-ish years. But I found I rarely use it due to its bulky size. 

[...]

Do you think it’s a good idea to have the swap assuming the SR copy I will have will be flawless? 

Short answer, yes it is a good idea. 

[hansvons]

17 hours ago, aficionados said:

A local dealer recently offered a brand new Steel Rim reissue to swap my FLE with no cash in or out.

The only commonalities between the two lenses are the focal length and the manufacturer. The FLE is 5-6 generations younger in development, with all the benefits that stem from this, particularly sharpness to the corners. You will be basically swapping 2010 for 1960, or so.

Shooting with vintage lenses and re-issuing them is arguably a fad, albeit a sympathetic one, with its place. But turning my whole photography into a time machine? I don't know.

That’s what I’d do: swap the FLE for an ASPH Summicron. That way, you get what you had with the FLE in terms of sharpness at low apertures without that glow (it can be very annoying, and it remains visible until f/2.8), but gain compactness, which is the whole idea behind the M system (and it has lots of personality, but more subtle compared to the Steel Rim).

With the money left, buy a Nokton f/1.4 V2 SC which is basically a 95% Steel Rim copy. That lens is on par with the Leica version in build quality and optical expression, with the exception of a slight barrel distortion which is easily correctable in post. You’ll be amazed at what you are getting for the money.

(I totally get it to shake up things from time to time, but in that case, you’ll be mired to a very specific look at the lower apertures—from the frying pan to the fire.)

 

[patrickcolpron]

22 minutes ago, hansvons said:

The only commonalities between the two lenses are the focal length and the manufacturer.

I don't think @aficionados is looking for commonalities but may be looking more at the pleasure derived from using a smaller lens when making photos. 

Trading a lens one doesn't use for a smaller lens one will most likely definitely use is a no brainer.

When I originally purchased the Steel Rim Reissue it was to complement a Chrome 50 ASPH for my Chrome Leica MP. A lens I would occasionally use when I needed a wider angle of view. When shooting film, I seldom shoot wide open anyways.

I ended up using the New Steel Rim exclusively for over a year because of its great ergonomics and balance on a M camera body. I did not only use it on an analogue MP to shoot film, but also with M10, plus M10-R and M10-Monochrom cameras making well over 100,000 photos in that time with it.

Is there some glow with it, yes at f/1.4 and even a little at f/1.7 but by f/2 that glow is almost if not completely non existent.

For sure the 35 mil Voigtlander Nokton is 95% of that new Steel Rim, but it is that 5% which makes the difference, this said Voigtlander lenses are great on their own.

The Summicron ASPH is in my opinion a better lens than the new Steel Rim technically speaking, alas, the joy I get out of photography has little to do with a better lens, it has more to do with a lens I love and enjoy using.

I have two Leica 35 Summicron lenses plus the FLE and a New Steel Rim and use the New Steel Rim more than the 3 other lenses combined. (And one of those two 35 Summicron M lens is the APO 35...) 

Straight up exchange with a lens you don't use because it is too big, versus a lens you will surely use because it is much smaller is a no brainer.

Then if @aficionados doesn't love the New Steel Rim, he can always try something else down the road without losing anything because the Steel Rim Reissue sells for more on the aftermarket than the Lux fLE V1 does. (Does it really?) 

But what do I know? Is the New Steel Rim reissue worth the price Leica is asking for it new, no it doesn't. But in a trade like this, it is definitely worth it.

Bellow, a little video I made comparing the New Steel Rim with the original sharing over 1500 photos made with the New Steel Rim in it.

Like you, I do recommend a 35 Summicron as opposed to the Steel Rim in my video, but the version 4 not the ASPH.

I am still holding on to my FLE, yet I so seldom use it that... I should probably sell it.

 

[hansvons]

1 hour ago, patrickcolpron said:

I don't think @aficionados is looking for commonalities but may be looking more at the pleasure derived from using a smaller lens when making photos. 

Precisely. That's why I suggested the most Leica-esk lens in the Leicaverse: the 35mm Summicron. Personality, performance, no bulk.

 

1 hour ago, patrickcolpron said:

The Summicron ASPH is in my opinion a better lens than the new Steel Rim technically speaking, alas, the joy I get out of photography has little to do with a better lens, it has more to do with a lens I love and enjoy using.

It's night and day, in my humble opinion. And it's highly loveable—so much so that I use it 90% of the time. It's important to understand that vintage = enjoyable and modern = clinical/not enjoyable may suit some photographers (that's why vintage is so en vogue today) but not everyone. I used many vintage lenses for filmmaking, including Cooke zooms and Zeiss Super Speeds, and they have their place (otherwise, I haven't owned them for 15 years), but so does modern glass. The ASPH Summicron renders particularly nice and moody images on B&W film in backlight situations but doesn't kill the image with too much flare (yes, it does flare nicely!). The ASPH Summicron is already pretty sharp at f/2, which I like when shooting Tri-X or Delta 100 (I'm not a fan of soft B&W).

 

1 hour ago, patrickcolpron said:

For sure the 35 mil Voigtlander Nokton is 95% of that new Steel Rim, but it is that 5% which makes the difference, this said Voigtlander lenses are great on their own.

Yes, it makes a difference for you and even me; it does not make a difference in the print—not an iota. But my view on this is result-driven. And I don't collect Leica stuff. But I guess I am a Leicaristi, as I own only Leica cameras. But, again, this is based on the results I want to achieve 😉 And that's why I own the mighty Nokton and skipped the Steel Rim–too costly for the 5%.

Both are nice lenses for moody, summery event images shot in the late afternoon without the hood, of course, embracing all the quirks they provide, from massive flares to the glow of death. It can be very lovely or just way too much. And stopping down isn't an option, at least on film, and maybe you want to keep that shallow depth of field on digital.

Bottomline: choices, choices, choices. Only let your shelf not become overcrowded with dust catchers.

 

[Smudgerer]

46 minutes ago, hansvons said:

 

Yes, it makes a difference for you and even me; it does not make a difference in the print—not an iota. But my view on this is result-driven. And I don't collect Leica stuff. But I guess I am a Leicaristi, as I own only Leica cameras. But, again, this is based on the results I want to achieve 😉 And that's why I own the mighty Nokton and skipped the Steel Rim–too costly for the 5%.

 

Agreed.......I own and use both the Nokton and the Re-Issue SR and I see no difference at all worth the mention, ( on film that is ), none..........Even when printing to A1 60x90cms. The one meaningful advantage for me is that in the hand the Nokton is a better lens to use than the SR with a much better filter / hood use design than Leica's sad efforts with the SR Re-Issue.......and oh yes, it comes in Black finish without having it's price doubled like the Leica SR Black.

[Sebastian S]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb hansvons:

 

With the money left, buy a Nokton f/1.4 V2 SC which is basically a 95% Steel Rim copy. That lens is on par with the Leica version in build quality and optical expression, with the exception of a slight barrel distortion which is easily correctable in post. You’ll be amazed at what you are getting for the money.

 

I dare to disagree on that point, i did a veeery long research and i really wanted to save the money, but the nokton is only at first glimps similar to the preAsph summilux. There is a certain difference of the glow where the nokton looks more like a lens softness, mushy and cloudy, whereas the summilux has a dreamy but stil sharp "light spill" that is more visible on the lights, hard to describe, but after a while you can see the difference even without knowing which pic is made with which lens and i always liked the summilux ones much more

[costa43]

If you are not using the FLE then just swap it and try out the SR. Enjoy yourself 😃

[Roy Bigsby]

My sense (as confirmed by many of the comments) is that the swap is in your favour. If you find you're not linking the SR and miss the FLE, you can always swap back with someone and probably without any financial loss on your part. I vote "go for it". 

[a.noctilux]

On 9/9/2024 at 7:10 AM, patrickcolpron said:

Short answer, yes it is a good idea. 

Post #13 the short answer.

Yes.

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[aficionados]

Thanks everyone for the response. I am heading to the dealer today to do the trade. Hopefully I get a good copy, no wobbly focus ring, no back focus, with good round hood..