28mm summilux second hand vs Norton 28mm 1.5

[Derbyshire Man]

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I repeated the tests today. Even at f2.5 the Thypoch vs Summilux at f1.4 the Leica was sharper in more of the image. I agree that the vast majority of the time that isn't going to be noticeable and it's likely the victim of a 60mb sensor. I suspect I'd not see much difference at 18mb. Similarly I suspect I'd see no difference printed at most sizes. However in the situation of an image crop and quite a large printed image I'm going to pull more out of the Summilux. It's an edge case (and an expensive edge case too) but one of the reasons I like the M11M is the incredible resolution of the sensor and the flexibility that provides. If the Simera was the size, weight and handling of the Nokton I'd be more tempted but considering the image quality, the fact the weight/size isn't much different and the focus lock (which I'm finding gets in the way in objects not quite at infinity) I'm going to pony up for the second hand Summilux, which ironically has probably been sold by someone more sensible who's moved onto the Nokton/Simera!

Agree that for general duties/sightseeing/landscape taken at >f2.0 (most likely f5.6 or f8) then a summicron (or in my case CV 28mm F2 ultron) is all you need, although for me, when simply documenting places I've been, I'm happy enough to leave those duties to my phone! There's something special however about the combination of fairly wide angle and equally wide aperture that for drama/environmental portraiture can't be delivered by a slower lens.

[LarsHP]

18 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I repeated the tests today. Even at f2.5 the Thypoch vs Summilux at f1.4 the Leica was sharper in more of the image. (...)

Does that apply to both short and medium focus distances, as well as both center and mid-frame?

If so, I'd say the Summilux may be worth the price to some, particularly when shooting M10-R and M11 cameras.

Since I use a 24MP camera with my M lenses, the extra resolution of the lens wide open will not show up as clearly. Versus the Nokton, I preferred the slightly weaker center wide open from the Simera, given its more even sharpness across the frame, particularly at short distances. I also prefer the bokeh rendering and visibly more blur wide open of the Simera. However, I am not comparing it to the Summilux, but the Nokton. Fred Miranda's Summilux was slightly weaker in the center at infinity than the Nokton, and my Simera is weaker than my Nokton, but more so than the difference seen in Fred Miranda's test.

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[LarsHP]

On 9/14/2024 at 1:30 AM, Derbyshire Man said:

I repeated the tests today. Even at f2.5 the Thypoch vs Summilux at f1.4 the Leica was sharper in more of the image.  (...)

My further thoughts: I think your 28mm Simera sample may be substandard.

Having tested the Nokton and Simera side-by-side for a few weeks, I found the Simera to be just slightly less sharp looking in the center, while outperforming the Nokton well away from center, while the Summilux, which Fred Miranda found to be almost indistinguishable from his Nokton, then it doesn't make sense that your Simera should be so much worse than the Summilux.

Here's another side-by-side test, both lenses wide open, of the central part. Near the edges, the Simera keeps sharpness up much better than the Nokton. This difference will of course be easier visible at 60MP than at 24.

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[TheEyesHaveIt]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:09 AM, RexGig0 said:

I am grateful for all of the useful information and comments. In my personal case, the actual goal is to avoid buying any 28mm f/1.4, f/1.5, or f/2 lens, unless there is some specific character or other optical quality that I desire, because 28mm is, for me, rarely used with an aperture wider than f/5.6. If I am going to spend money for a Summilux with a focal length shorter than 35mm, I might well rather that it be 24mm.

Your comment motivated me to go look at my Lightroom catalog and how I shot my Q2. Turns out 95+% were at f4 or more. So I have to ask myself at f4+, what is a summilux really going to give me that’s unique from a rendering standpoint (or even my CV 28/2.8). Maybe I should be looking at the Summaron.

[mmradman]

Fast aperture lens is like insurance policy when it is dark and ISO range or shutter speed don't cut it or shallow DOF is desired.  Most of us shoot most of the time at optimal aperture that give best performance combined with decent DOF, shallow DOF can be fun but that is not photography.

As current owner of Summilux 28 which I acquired at launch in 2015, not the special edition year or two previously, I was intrigued and sitting on fence between Simera and Nokton.

In the end i decided to buy Nokton, i did handle Simera, it is beautifully crafted lens, but I trust well established business like Cosina more.  In practical terms I desired compact and fast 28mm lens as it would be mostly shot at f5.6 to f8, opening statement explains my opinion on fast lenses. There is also a bit of GAS, this is LUF after all.  Simera is similar in size to Summilux (same filter size, 49mm), so why have two big lenses, granted Siemera is slightly lighter in weight.  

Comparing Summilux and Nokton at max aperture my feel is that Nokton vignettes less than Summilux.  Is it better, i don't know and i don't care, i like the compact size. When i feel i need to produce "epic" shot i will dust off Summilux providing i can still focus is well using RF.

If Leica ever manages to sort out quality (lack of) issues with recent M cameras (i know it it controversial statement to make here) i may be able to see the quality, which i suspect would be Summilux, on higher MP sensor.  I am happy with Nokton on my 24Mp cameras, mostly M246 and occasionally M240.

[Al Brown]

Thypoch 28 has by far the most creamy and pleasant bokeh of them all. And of course the most character.

[Cris Roberto]

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4 hours ago, mmradman said:

Fast aperture lens is like insurance policy when it is dark and ISO range or shutter speed don't cut it or shallow DOF is desired.  Most of us shoot most of the time at optimal aperture that give best performance combined with decent DOF, shallow DOF can be fun but that is not photography.

As current owner of Summilux 28 which I acquired at launch in 2015, not the special edition year or two previously, I was intrigued and sitting on fence between Simera and Nokton.

In the end i decided to buy Nokton, i did handle Simera, it is beautifully crafted lens, but I trust well established business like Cosina more.  In practical terms I desired compact and fast 28mm lens as it would be mostly shot at f5.6 to f8, opening statement explains my opinion on fast lenses. There is also a bit of GAS, this is LUF after all.  Simera is similar in size to Summilux (same filter size, 49mm), so why have two big lenses, granted Siemera is slightly lighter in weight.  

Comparing Summilux and Nokton at max aperture my feel is that Nokton vignettes less than Summilux.  Is it better, i don't know and i don't care, i like the compact size. When i feel i need to produce "epic" shot i will dust off Summilux providing i can still focus is well using RF.

If Leica ever manages to sort out quality (lack of) issues with recent M cameras (i know it it controversial statement to make here) i may be able to see the quality, which i suspect would be Summilux, on higher MP sensor.  I am happy with Nokton on my 24Mp cameras, mostly M246 and occasionally M240.

I agree with your take As the lux as an insurance policy. But, in truth I use 1.4 more than I’d care to admit. And both the Thypoch and summilux have that beautiful rendering wide open for the quick luxy portrait. Let’s face it- there is a mystique to 1.4 at this focal length. F4-f8 for everything else.

 The one argument I would make against the lux is close focus. Both the Nokton and Thypoch have great close focus abilities- and at this focal length you just wanna get in closer. I recently bought the 28mm Cron V3 close-focus as an everyday carry- and man does that extra boost of close focus make a difference for composition at 28

6 hours ago, TheEyesHaveIt said:

Your comment motivated me to go look at my Lightroom catalog and how I shot my Q2. Turns out 95+% were at f4 or more. So I have to ask myself at f4+, what is a summilux really going to give me that’s unique from a rendering standpoint (or even my CV 28/2.8). Maybe I should be looking at the Summaron.

if are willing to break away from 1.4 - the 28mm Elmarit is a fantastic and celebrated lens. And 2.8 is plenty for most situations . However, hard to argue with 700$ pricetag on a Thypoch or Nokton- and hairsplitting IQ differences. 
 

one thing no one has mentioned is the ugly CA on the Nokton. I personally hate purple fringing- the nokton has it and to some extent the Lux. Haven’t seen it on my copy of the Thypoch 

 

[TheEyesHaveIt]

16 minutes ago, Cris Roberto said:

if are willing to break away from 1.4 - the 28mm Elmarit is a fantastic and celebrated lens. And 2.8 is plenty for most situations . However, hard to argue with 700$ pricetag on a Thypoch or Nokton- and hairsplitting IQ differences. 

I have the CV 28/2.8 and love the size (smaller than the Elmarit). Now, after having said all what I've said in this thread...found a great deal on a secondhand Summilux 28 and so, that is on the way to me 🫠 

Edited September 15 by TheEyesHaveIt