Adobe's subscription model

[Bobonli]

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Bumping this up because:

1. I have come the unfortunate discovery that the LR app on my computer is no long updatable without paying into the subscription service, though somehow the app on my tablet still has basic functionality.

2. Recently saw the Northrop's video calling out Adobe on privacy and pricing issues.

So maybe it's time to split and try another piece of software for cataloging and basic editing. Who can summarize, please, pro & cons of switching to Capture One, which I understand has a one-time purchase option and not plagued with the company vacuuming up content.

 

 

[Split from Processing best practices" thread AB]

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Bobonli said:

Bumping this up because:

1. I have come the unfortunate discovery that the LR app on my computer is no long updatable without paying into the subscription service, though somehow the app on my tablet still has basic functionality.

2. Recently saw the Northrop's video calling out Adobe on privacy and pricing issues.

So maybe it's time to split and try another piece of software for cataloging and basic editing. Who can summarize, please, pro & cons of switching to Capture One, which I understand has a one-time purchase option and not plagued with the company vacuuming up content.

These matters cut both ways.  For instance…

https://photopxl.com/capture-one-we-are-breaking-up/
 

There are already many threads here on the topic, easily searched.

Jeff

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[Bobonli]

Thanks for that link Jeff. We can't have our cake and eat it too, it seems. I'm really not a fan of subscriptions. I miss the day when you could buy PS and keep using it until you wanted the update, and then just pay for an update or a new version. For me that usually meant my computer's OS wouldn't run the software anymore. 

[Jeff S]

10 minutes ago, Bobonli said:

Thanks for that link Jeff. We can't have our cake and eat it too, it seems. I'm really not a fan of subscriptions. I miss the day when you could buy PS and keep using it until you wanted the update, and then just pay for an update or a new version. For me that usually meant my computer's OS wouldn't run the software anymore. 

This topic also well covered.  I actually prefer the subscription model; simpler, always up to date, and similarly priced to the old model for me with the Photo Plan, which includes LR(Classic) and Photoshop for 10 bucks a month.  A mere pittance in the scheme of my photography costs, and maybe the biggest bang for the buck for me (along with ImagePrint). I have a very different take than the Northrop’s, given my use case. I also find LR updated controls and features very significant and practical compared to earlier versions.

Jeff

Edited August 31 by Jeff S

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, Bobonli said:

Bumping this up because:

1. I have come the unfortunate discovery that the LR app on my computer is no long updatable without paying into the subscription service, though somehow the app on my tablet still has basic functionality.

2. Recently saw the Northrop's video calling out Adobe on privacy and pricing issues.

So maybe it's time to split and try another piece of software for cataloging and basic editing. Who can summarize, please, pro & cons of switching to Capture One, which I understand has a one-time purchase option and not plagued with the company vacuuming up content.

Nothrops are not trustworthy; that should be clear for a long time. Here is an article that describes the facts:

https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/adobe-defends-changes-in-its-terms-of-service-amid-gen-ai-explosion/

"Adobe says that it only scans files on its cloud service and not on users' PCs. According to the software giant, "Adobe performs content analysis only on content processed or stored on Adobe's servers; we don't analyze content processed or stored locally on your device." That verbiage has not changed."

The $9.99 subscription service for LrC and PS is the best money I have spent on photography tools.

[Bobonli]

Thank you SrMi for that link. Ok. I guess I got sucked into what amounts to Click Bait when I saw that video. 

[250swb]

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It was a shock when Adobe came up with the subscription 'scam'. But in reality the bi-annual (ish) updates Adobe made nearly always improved things, and with the subscription you don't have to wait six to nine moths for the full update package, they happen when ready. And I think pro rata the price has been very, very stable and possibly beating inflation over all those years, so it's not a cash grab as so many people initially thought.

[hansvons]

17 hours ago, Bobonli said:

We can't have our cake and eat it too, it seems. I'm really not a fan of subscriptions.

 

17 hours ago, Jeff S said:

 I actually prefer the subscription model; simpler, always up to date, and similarly priced to the old model for me with the Photo Plan, which includes LR(Classic) and Photoshop for 10 bucks a month.

I prefer subscription, too. I use C1 as my main editor, including cataloguing. The reason is the easier colour negatives conversions that I do regularly (it’s got the best Levels tool in the industry). AI mattes are also a big plus, but I’m sure LR is similarity equipped these days. And lastly, I prefer C1’s raw conversion, but this is a matter of taste.

I’d stick to LR because you built considerable muscle memory, and are happy with the results (I’m anticipating this).

13 hours ago, SrMi said:

Nothrops are not trustworthy; that should be clear for a long time. Here is an article that describes the facts:

https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/adobe-defends-changes-in-its-terms-of-service-amid-gen-ai-explosion/

They belong to the YouTube photography gear sphere. Most videos in that space are junk, made by average photographers without proper journalism training but big ego. Not worth the time.

One could argue that Adobe is preying on its subscribers’ creativity by training their AI with their works, only to make them jobless in the future by selling their former customers’ creativity as AI to corporations and agencies.

All of that is unfortunate and inevitable, but also does have lots of upsides for the users. But supporting smaller companies is important, one reason why I work with C1.

BTW, I test-drove Luminar Neo and liked it a lot for various reasons. Their approach is refreshing, and the results can be very good. 

[SrMi]

7 minutes ago, hansvons said:

One could argue that Adobe is preying on its subscribers’ creativity by training their AI with their works, only to make them jobless in the future by selling their former customers’ creativity as AI to corporations and agencies.

Adobe is not training their AI on subscribers’ work.

[SrMi]

12 minutes ago, hansvons said:

But supporting smaller companies is important, one reason why I work with C1.

I support DxO and Topaz, but not C1 as they do not want to support my camera out of spite (Hasselblad).

[hansvons]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Adobe is not training their AI on subscribers’ work.

 

Thanks for clarifying this, and I stand corrected. My information was based on what I learned before June, when Adobe issued a statement, claiming that they do not train their AI Firefly on user data/images. However, they do use AI to skimm trough their cloud searching for child porn, etc.

While I see the need to do this, I find it difficult to draw a line here, especially when considering the fact that Adobe did use the in 2015 acquired Fotolia cloud with silently upgraded user terms to train Firefly. I also learned in this article that Adobe also uses Adobe Stock for AI-training purposes without owning the images.

In my view, Adobe’s practices still seem fishy. 

[Bobonli]

I obviously allowed myself to be led down a rabbit hole. Thank you everyone for pointing me back toward the surface.

Here's my (outmoded ) frame of reference. I've been on a Mac since 1985. Aperture, Final Cut, Photoshop user. You bought that stuff once, maybe once again when you needed a new computer. And it just worked. I'm not a professional photographer, so I need cataloging and basic editing. So maybe I spent $500 over 15 years updating software, if that much. Then all of a sudden Aperture is gone, then Final Cut (it came back, sort of) so I buy LR, but never really set up the catalogs. Then it's "gone" because they want a subscription. So I've been sitting "naked" for awhile now and I want to choose wisely to get my catalog in order.

[Anbaric]

Adobe's biggest scam isn't the rental scheme, which presumably users go into with their eyes open, but the way they've locked holders of 'perpetual' licences out of the software they paid for by refusing to activate it. CS4 and earlier can no longer be activated (unless you have the special activation-free versions of CS2 or CS3 that Adobe no longer provide, and never did provide for CS4). Their excuse is that the 'aging activation servers had to be retired', as if a company worth a quarter of a trillion dollars couldn't just provision new virtual servers at minimal expense somewhere on their vast corporate cloud. Even with CS6, you can lose your software if your hardware dies when your activation count is maxed out, because Adobe will no longer reset the count manually. Eventually they will stop activating CS6 and Lightroom 6 altogether (LR 5 and earlier versions don't need activation).

But some users, mainly those who don't care about new features and used to upgrade only rarely, are paying substantially more for subscriptions. A fair number of people probably bought Lightroom (UK price about £100) when they purchased a new camera, weren't interested in Photoshop, and didn't bother with a new version of LR until they upgraded the camera or computer, perhaps 5 years later. Today, it would cost them £600 as part of the cheapest Photography plan to keep Lightroom running for that same period. Or imagine someone who used to get the CS Design Standard package to use Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign and Acrobat Pro. That used to cost under £1000. The cheapest way to get the same tools today is a full CC subscription at £656 a year, or nearly £3300 over 5 years. In just 18 months, the subscription will have cost you as much as the 'perpetual' licence would have done. Squeezing the formerly infrequent upgraders is one of the reasons that Adobe is worth $254.69 billion today.

[Bobonli]

Anbaric, you just summarized my situation better than I could have. 

[Jeff S]

There are still lots of choices. Folks can choose the company and model that works best for them. Pretty simple IMO. Adobe happens to suit my needs, at least for now, particularly since cloud storage is optional; I opt out. If that were to change, I would reassess. Companies can change directions; so can users, if desired based on their circumstances. Not a monopoly.

Jeff

[SrMi]

Because I regularly update my cameras and want to use the best tools available, a subscription model suits me better than upgrading regularly. Most photographers only need the $9.99 monthly subscription ($120 per year), which is not a lot for having state-of-the-art tools.

[Anbaric]

One thing I noticed recently is that the £10/month 20GB Photography Plan has been de-emphasised on the Plans page, at least on the UK site. You only see the 1TB £20/month plan unless you click through to 'Compare photography plans'. I wonder if this is a suggestion of intent? Would users who currently subscibe to the 20GB plan jump to the 1TB if the cheaper option were discontinued? Now that Adobe has so many users hooked, there's probably quite a bit of scope for squeezing them further, expecially as the 1TB plan must be more profitable (MS only charges £5/month for 1TB of cloud storage with Office 365).

[Jeff S]

40 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

One thing I noticed recently is that the £10/month 20GB Photography Plan has been de-emphasised on the Plans page, at least on the UK site. You only see the 1TB £20/month plan unless you click through to 'Compare photography plans'. I wonder if this is a suggestion of intent? Would users who currently subscibe to the 20GB plan jump to the 1TB if the cheaper option were discontinued? Now that Adobe has so many users hooked, there's probably quite a bit of scope for squeezing them further, expecially as the 1TB plan must be more profitable (MS only charges £5/month for 1TB of cloud storage with Office 365).

I couldn’t care less about their cloud storage; don’t use it.  Ten bucks a month for LR Classic and Photoshop is a bargain for me nonetheless.  No addiction or squeezing involved.

Jeff

Edited September 1 by Jeff S

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, Anbaric said:

Adobe's biggest scam isn't the rental scheme, which presumably users go into with their eyes open, but the way they've locked holders of 'perpetual' licences out of the software they paid for by refusing to activate it. CS4 and earlier can no longer be activated (unless you have the special activation-free versions of CS2 or CS3 that Adobe no longer provide, and never did provide for CS4). Their excuse is that the 'aging activation servers had to be retired', as if a company worth a quarter of a trillion dollars couldn't just provision new virtual servers at minimal expense somewhere on their vast corporate cloud. Even with CS6, you can lose your software if your hardware dies when your activation count is maxed out, because Adobe will no longer reset the count manually. Eventually they will stop activating CS6 and Lightroom 6 altogether (LR 5 and earlier versions don't need activation).

But some users, mainly those who don't care about new features and used to upgrade only rarely, are paying substantially more for subscriptions. A fair number of people probably bought Lightroom (UK price about £100) when they purchased a new camera, weren't interested in Photoshop, and didn't bother with a new version of LR until they upgraded the camera or computer, perhaps 5 years later. Today, it would cost them £600 as part of the cheapest Photography plan to keep Lightroom running for that same period. Or imagine someone who used to get the CS Design Standard package to use Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign and Acrobat Pro. That used to cost under £1000. The cheapest way to get the same tools today is a full CC subscription at £656 a year, or nearly £3300 over 5 years. In just 18 months, the subscription will have cost you as much as the 'perpetual' licence would have done. Squeezing the formerly infrequent upgraders is one of the reasons that Adobe is worth $254.69 billion today.

You are missing that Photoshop and Lightroom are basically professional software; there are plenty of excellent prosumer grade programs available. It is quite common for professional software in any field to be a subscription model. It is not primarily a turnover maximizer, but a means to ensure continuity, which is essential in the professional world.

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[ianforber]

5 hours ago, Bobonli said:

I obviously allowed myself to be led down a rabbit hole. Thank you everyone for pointing me back toward the surface.

Here's my (outmoded ) frame of reference. I've been on a Mac since 1985. Aperture, Final Cut, Photoshop user. You bought that stuff once, maybe once again when you needed a new computer. And it just worked. I'm not a professional photographer, so I need cataloging and basic editing. So maybe I spent $500 over 15 years updating software, if that much. Then all of a sudden Aperture is gone, then Final Cut (it came back, sort of) so I buy LR, but never really set up the catalogs. Then it's "gone" because they want a subscription. So I've been sitting "naked" for awhile now and I want to choose wisely to get my catalog in order.

I suspect many here were Aperture users too. I really liked it. I migrated to LR a year or so after Apple stopped supporting it, stayed for a few years before deciding it wasn’t for me and moved to Capture One. What I learned I. Doing all that was to make sure I had TIFFs or jpegs of all my photos as raw edits didn’t transfer from one software to the other so make sure you’re prepared for this when moving your catalog. Personally, I’m happy with the C1 subscription service.