Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
marknorton

Full Frame Convert

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I collected my Nikon D3 yesterday and spent some time getting to know it.

 

Difficult to describe but there's something essentially right about using all the imaging circle the lenses can provide, so a revelation to use my 14mm f2.8 and 28mm f1.4 lenses in the way they were designed for. I'd been used to the (relatively) shallow DoF from the 28mm wide open but the extra coverage seems to complete the picture, so to speak. The huge bulbous 14mm lens seems appropriate for the angle of view now provided where previously it felt ridiculous. The 85mm f1.4 is back to being a favourite portrait lens, just like the 75mm Summilux would be on a full frame M.

 

More clear to me than ever that a follow on camera to the M8 must do the same. It needs to be full frame to release the potential in all those lenses we own. OK, the M8 crop factor is not as severe as Nikon DX (1.33:1.5) but I think an M9 must wait until sensor technology moves on to allow FF.

 

I see there's an item in LFI next issue about sensor developments. Wouldn't it be nice if they were able to report progress in this direction?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If such CCD is developed, what about changing the one in the M8.

New CCD, with dedicated electronics, change framelines,(shutter is FF), new type of battery, engraving number 2 next to the M8- for about 1500 $?

 

I somehow think that m8 is designed for this to be done...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... I somehow think that m8 is designed for this to be done...

Marko--

Let's hope you're right!

 

The only thing wrong with your logic is that since the camera is also engraved LEICA, the upgrade price may not be so low...

 

--HC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice thoughts, but it would seem to me a more difficult problem to design a FF for the M. The lens to sensor distance is shorter than in SLRs, where a mirror is accommodated between the lens and sensor. This would make light reaching the outer edges of the M sensor arriving at an extremely acute angle -- much more so than a SLR. Possible? -- perhaps. Holding my breath? -- no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark-plaes dont talk more about the 28 and 85 on the D3-I own both lenses and had a D3 on order but just canceled the order because I thought its just too much money for someone who does not mainly shoot sports and uses M8s 90% of the time.

I also was a bit afraid if the D3 would deliever the "clarity" of the M8 shots with Leica lenses.

A very tempting camera with the high ISO performance and the full frame.

enjoy and post some images if you have time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I collected my Nikon D3 yesterday and spent some time getting to know it.

 

Difficult to describe but there's something essentially right about using all the imaging circle the lenses can provide, so a revelation to use my 14mm f2.8 and 28mm f1.4 lenses in the way they were designed for. I'd been used to the (relatively) shallow DoF from the 28mm wide open but the extra coverage seems to complete the picture, so to speak. The huge bulbous 14mm lens seems appropriate for the angle of view now provided where previously it felt ridiculous. The 85mm f1.4 is back to being a favourite portrait lens, just like the 75mm Summilux would be on a full frame M.

 

More clear to me than ever that a follow on camera to the M8 must do the same. It needs to be full frame to release the potential in all those lenses we own. OK, the M8 crop factor is not as severe as Nikon DX (1.33:1.5) but I think an M9 must wait until sensor technology moves on to allow FF.

 

I see there's an item in LFI next issue about sensor developments. Wouldn't it be nice if they were able to report progress in this direction?

 

This i exactly what I keep saying since all these Crop ameras were introduced! No way, the next M digital must be a FF, only this will give us back all the potential of the M gals we invested tons of money to get the best lenses available today.

 

BTW, I have my Nikon FF glass sitting in my bag, I am going to invest pretty soon in a FF Nikon, I only am not sure if there will not be a high resolution version of the D3 in 2008, which I would prefer to the high sensitivity of the D3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I am going to invest pretty soon in a FF Nikon, I only am not sure if there will not be a high resolution version of the D3 in 2008, which I would prefer to the high sensitivity of the D3.

 

Peter, I was in the same position thinking that I would wait for the higher resolution version, not even knowing whether one is planned. I was also worried about my DX lenses only giving 5MP.

 

In the end, I realised that 12MP if fine for what I normally print (A3, occasionally A2) and I get some pretty spectacular pictures from my Digilux 2 which is also 5MP and a smaller sensor to boot.

 

If a higher resolution version does come out, I expect to be able to trade the D3 (and not at all certain I would) for only moderate loss and I've had the use of it in the meantime. Hardly a cast iron justification but seemed very reasonable as I opened the box yesterday!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nice thoughts, but it would seem to me a more difficult problem to design a FF for the M. The lens to sensor distance is shorter than in SLRs, where a mirror is accommodated between the lens and sensor. This would make light reaching the outer edges of the M sensor arriving at an extremely acute angle -- much more so than a SLR. Possible? -- perhaps. Holding my breath? -- no.

 

Yes of course, I guess the point of my original post was to say that FF looks to be worthwhile and I don't think they should rush the M9 until they can do it. A re-hashed cropped camera is hardly likely to make us upgrade unless there is a big improvement in high-ISO performance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mark-plaes dont talk more about the 28 and 85 on the D3-I own both lenses and had a D3 on order but just canceled the order because I thought its just too much money for someone who does not mainly shoot sports and uses M8s 90% of the time.

I also was a bit afraid if the D3 would deliever the "clarity" of the M8 shots with Leica lenses.

A very tempting camera with the high ISO performance and the full frame.

enjoy and post some images if you have time.

 

Thomas, it's more like 60%(Leica)/40%(Nikon) for me but I certainly understand it's pointless buying a new expensive body if you hardly use it.

 

The camera does seem incredibly well sorted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would surprise me very much if a future M would not be FF. Main reason for me thinking so is that Leica is not developping M-lenses for the smaller sensors. It would make sense to consider the summarit lenses as a low level entry into the M-system, combined with a second hand M-8. But what about the 'smaller M' rumours?

 

Harald

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are full frame M's out there already, I have one!

 

How many M8 users keep a film M for when they want to use their lenses to the maximum potential I wonder? Workflow/time issues aside, its a perfect reason to keep a finger in the film pie isn't it?

 

The D3 does look impressive. Interesting that Nikon finally decided to go FF. I take it as a sign that they were losing out to Canon too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Main reason for me thinking so is that Leica is not developping M-lenses for the smaller sensors.

Harald

 

That would be totally against the Leica ethos though. It's also why you can find just about the oldest Leica lens going and stick on you M8.

 

Maybe in time this strategy will change though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That would be totally against the Leica ethos though. It's also why you can find just about the oldest Leica lens going and stick on you M8.

 

Maybe in time this strategy will change though.

I think it will only change when 2 points come to light.

1) Leica does not come out with a FF M9 and never thinks it will be possible.

2) Film M just stop selling altogether and the sales amount of FF lenses starts to drop, due to the cost and for the simple fact there are a ton of them out there in the used market.

It is then Leica will think about crop lenses that are even smaller then the current line, just as fast, less expensive to make and sell for lower price but just as good as the FF M lenses.

Just think Leica could make a 12mm/14mm/16mm lens for the crop that, because of the size, could be in the f/2.8 range and cost somewhere around what the Summarit are and not block out the view/rangefinder.

You could still use these lenses on a film M if you crop the negative to the 27x18mm size.

 

To your other post.

Yes I have one, a M3, and I've been looking at getting either a M6/7 or MP. But then just before I pull the trigger on one of these I think, "Just how often do I use my M3 now".

Very little if at all and that stops me from dropping the hammer on another film body.

Most all other camera makers have already stopped making film bodies.

When I got up yesterday I said lets take the M3 with 50 Cron only and 2 rolls of film with me for the day. Do you know what I grapped just as I left the house. The chrome M8 with 35 & 50 Cron.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark don't you find it a beast compared to the M8?

I went to a photo store yesterday to look at and hold one but they didn't have any.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark, as an aggressive camera deconstructor, I think the Forum would appreciate your thoughts on getting a full-frame sensor into a body about the same size as the M8's.

 

Obviously, the D3 is larger than the M8. Equally and as you have so convincingly illustrated, there are a lot of gubbins inside the M8 besides just the sensor. Those have to be dealt with and, it would seem to me, probably requires a bigger box. How much bigger?

 

The M8 is about as big as I would like; I don't think I want a bigger body to get a bigger sensor. I have already made the mental adjustments for the lens focal lengths on the M8. But then, I have come down from Hasselblad where the boxes are bigger and lenses are "shorter."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ed, yes, it's a big camera but comparable to a D2x which many Nikon owners have been using for a while.

 

That's why a FF M would be a killer, all that M lens capability in an M-sized package.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark

 

Congratulations on your purchase. I am sure the D3 is going to prove to be a fantastic camera.

 

It looks like a great camera but in the photographs I've seen so far it also looks like the size of a small laptop. I just can't imagine using this as a 'walkaround' rig, which is how I do most of my photography.

 

I did consider (very, very seriously) going down the 5D route before investing in my M8. Again, the issue was one of remaining discrete and also relieving the burden on my ageing back (even if it did add a greater burden to my wallet to get the M8).

 

I have nothing but admiration for Nikon equipment - my now departed 24/2.8 AF-D was a fantastic lens and I bet it would be excellent on the D3. But given the size of the D3, it is definitely made for people fitter and stronger than I am :-)

 

Enjoy using it (and perhaps you can give us a link to some of your results?)

 

LouisB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue., Read more about our Privacy Policy