Imagine your wildest dream came true and you got a coupon of roughly 3k€ to spend it on a lens (Buying advice desired)

[feelssadman]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi all,

I have first world problem and require advice because I do not want to take stupid decisions. Put briefly, I have a coupon for roughly 2700€ in camera equipment for which I can't find a buyer, even if I gift a few percent as an incentive. I do not want to get into details why I have it (I made a huge loss in any case, this is not a fairy tale unfortunately). I simply want to invest it wisely.

I currently have

• a 28mm Elmarit ASPH. v1
• a 35mm Biogon f2.8
• a 40mm Heliar f2.8
• a 50mm Summicron (which I do not intend to sell)
• a 75mm f1.5 Nokton

which I use on an M10 and an SL2.

The "problem" is, that I currently do not really have the desire to get anything new and much rather have the coupon in cash to invest in something different. However, seeing that I won't be able to sell it, I'm thinking of getting a lens that has long been on my wishlist, which is either any 21mm or 35mm Summicron (or Summilux). I thought about selling the M10 and getting a used M11 but after browsing through countless threads and reading reviews, I am not sure if that is a good option.

As I do not want to have multiple lenses for a focal length (Yes, I know that 28, 35, 40 and 50 are relatively close), I see a few approaches:

1. Sell the Biogon and get an older used Summicron 35 (with money left on the coupon)
2. Sell the Biogon and the Color-Skopar and get a new Summicron 35 for 3500€
3. Sell the Biogon and the Color-Skopar and get used Summilux 35 for 3700€
4. Get a used 21mm Elmarit for 2000€ (with money left on the coupon)
5. Sell the Biogon and the Color-Skopar and get a new 21 SEM
6. Get a used 28mm Summicron for 2800€ and sell the 28mm Elmarit for roughly 1200€. I could get a Voigtländer 21mm/3,5 Ultron with that but since my primary use case would be landscape, I'd prefer the 1.4 but that one is too large to keep in my EDC bag since I'd use it to document day-to-day life as well. Hence, this leaves me with 1200€.

Note that selling camera equipment privately is an immensely bourdensome and tedious task where I currently live and selling implies getting the value as a coupon again.

What would you do? Kowing that I rather work as a documentary photographer, take portraits, sometimes landscapes (with the occasional street snapshots), what would you consider me to do?

Thanks a lot for your advice.

Edited August 4 by feelssadman

[Stuart Richardson]

Since you have the SL2, I am inclined to recommend the 35mm APO Summicron SL, as it is the best 35mm lens I have ever seen by a mile, and it is available around that price if you look for awhile. Otherwise I would recommend a 35mm Summilux ASPH or ASPH FLE. You don't have any fast wide angle lenses, and the 35mm ASPH is beautiful at 1.4 and will be useful in low light. If you are doing documentary, portraits and occasional landscapes, the 35mm 1.4 ASPH will serve you really well. Especially on the M10. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Mute-on]

I assume you are satisfied with your current lenses, as I expect you should be.

I can only speak for my own preferences, taking into account what you own and the purpose to which you put it.  In your shoes, and with an eye to investment, I would pursue a Leica M film body. Specifically, a black paint MP, preferably used in excellent condition form early production (serial 2xx or 3xx). Alternatively, a button rewind M2, or a late M3. Add a Sekonic L308 and a bucket of Ektar or HP5. Enjoy!

Edited August 4 by Mute-on

[lct]

You simply miss a 21 but you don't have to sell anything IMO. Keep the superb Biogon 35/2.8 if you like contrasty lenses, and keep your other lenses too they are all very good. Among 21mm lenses, the choice is wide. My favorite, among affordable ones, is the Biogon 21/4.5, which is discontinued but can be found second hand, but if you want a new one i would recommend the Skopar 21/3.5. Happy snaps 🙂

[RexGig0]

Retirement provided a modest financial windfall, that enabled me to buy into the Leica M system, in 2018, but, since then, has diminished my ability to buy photography equipment. In mid-2023, I saw an opportunity to buy a lens, up to about $4000 US in total cost, without paying interest, if I paid in full within six months. That last part would require being quite frugal, during those six months. I had bought only pre-owned M-mount lenses, up to that time, so, the thought of finally buying a new Leica lens became appealing, as one “last hurrah,” before curtailing my acquisition of M lenses, indefinitely. Rather than add a focal length, I chose to buy yet another 35mm lens, then, perhaps, sell a 35mm lens, later, when it became apparent which one should go.

35mm is the focal length of most of my M camera images, though my most-favored individual M-mount lens is 50mm. So, there was no logical reason to buy another 50mm.

I am posting these thoughts, not to urge anyone to buy a 35mm lens, but to say why I chose a 35mm lens. I knew that a good 35mm lens would be useful. It would not sit in a storage niche.

Ultimately, I decided to choose a 35mm lens with some amount of “character,” because I already had a highly-optically-corrected 35mm lens. I did consider acquiring a pre-owned Summilux FLE, which I see as a “character” lens, rather than a well-corrected lens. I met a local Leica shooter at a coffee shop, to test-shoot his Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f/1.4 II MC, while be test-shot my Leica M10. I test-shot a demonstrator FLE at a Leica dealer, alongside a Sixties-vintage, but VERY clean Summilux-M 35mm Version II. My “control” lens, during that experiment, was my highly-optically-corrected Zeiss Distagon 35mm f/1.4 ZM. (By the way, this Distagon has smooth bokeh that my eyes favor, much more than that of the FLE.)

Again, I am not urging anyone to buy a 35mm lens, or to buy any specific lens.

Ultimately, I decided that I would try a “Re-Edition” Summilux-M 35mm Steel Rim. Objectively, it would distort straight lines less than would the Nokton option, while offering more “character” than any of my other 35mm lenses. This seemed to be a worthy goal. Its chief “competition” was the Super Elmar-M 21mm ASPH, a very different lens, for very different tasks.

I now have the option of using a highly-optically-corrected f/1.4 35mm lens, or a charmingly less-optically-corrected f/1.4 35mm lens.

Again, I am not urging anyone to buy a 35mm lens, or to buy any of the same 35mm lenses that I have. I have simply described my thought process.

For what it is worth, paying that nearly-$4K US amount, to PayPal Credit, within six months, was not easy, but, I did it. I doubt that I will use this method, again, for anything nearly this expensive. Had it been necessary, I would have sold a Nikon 500mm telephoto lens, for cash, but that did not become necessary. (We are aging-out of wanting to tote heavy telephoto lenses, anymore. That 500mm lens will probably be sold, eventually, anyway, but, my wife now wants to see the Whooping Cranes, this next season, so, it is good that we kept it.) 

Have any of my 35mm lenses now become expendable? Well, my Voigtlander Color Skopar II is now the most redundant, though it does not eat much, or bark when I fail to take it along, on walks, so, there is no hurry to be rid of it.

 

Edited August 4 by RexGig0

[FrozenInTime]

For documentary purposes nothing distinguishes a Leica M from other camera systems as much as the compact fast 35mm and 50mm ~f/1.4 lenses that are available.

If you want pin sharp poster size landscapes, your current slow lens may still be sharper across the whole field.

... so add a Summilux or Nokton, either classic for a artistic look, or an aspherical design for the modern high contrast look with smooth background separation.

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

If you like landscapes, what about a Super Elmar 18 ? 

[Al Brown]

My solution 1: Get several lenses you desire, but choose Voigt or Zeiss... you can easily get the new old stock Biogon 18 for a fraction of the SEM 18 (I got it for 700 euros). And get an used Nokton 50/1.0 which would fit everything you listed you do above (1200-1300). And you can add the character king Nokton 35/1.4 II SC or MC (400) and perhaps one more lens (you have a couple hundred left) for the entire value of your coupon. 4 great lenses? Probably the coolest and sweetest deal.

My solution 2: Get a lens for the entire amount that is hot and sell it online, getting your desired cash.

Edited August 4 by Al Brown

[jaapv]

When I bought the Super Elmar I compared it to the Zeiss. No contest I bought the SE for a considerably larger amount. 

[Xavier]

6 minutes ago, jaapv said:

When I bought the Super Elmar I compared it to the Zeiss. No contest I bought the SE for a considerably larger amount. 

I second that. I had the Zeiss and moved to the SEM when I could. Not that the Zeiss was awful. But it sometimes showed the italian flag pattern and the SEM is spectacular.

[DadDadDaddyo]

Have to say my first thought was to suggest the 35mm Summilux; f/1.4 is a nice thing to be able to access, for the subject separation if not for the speed. 

[Stuart Richardson]

16 hours ago, Xavier said:

I second that. I had the Zeiss and moved to the SEM when I could. Not that the Zeiss was awful. But it sometimes showed the italian flag pattern and the SEM is spectacular.

The Zeiss is a superb lens on film, but it was designed more for film, so the angle of incidence is quite strong, causing loss of sharpness in the edges on digital, where it has to go through a lot more cover glass than a lens purpose designed for digital.

[costa43]

You have some nice lenses. Maybe one of the SL Apo lenses in your favourite focal length would compliment your kit, giving you ultimate image quality and a good weather sealed option. You will also avoid selling existing gear which you seem averse to. They are all pretty spectacular, buy used and they will come in close to your voucher. 

 

Edited August 5 by costa43

[KFo]

No multiple lenses in same focal length makes this a more interesting problem.  Looking over that list, I'd pick up either the SEM 21 f/3.4 (on my list now) and pretty cheap used on the Leica scale of price.  A 21 mm Color Skopar (I have the f/4 LTM version) is a nice option as well and can had mint for less than €500 but typically from Japan. I don't know how the source of supply effects your options...  Looking at the list it would appear that you value compactness, so I would put a Color Skopar ahead of the SEM on that basis.

The €2700 should also cover a view finder in 21 of your choice.

At the other end of the spectrum, a 90 macro elmar m (I have this one) is a fine little lens that easily goes along for the ride when you are out and around.  I see these used as low as €500 around here and a complete kit (macro adapter, etc) for about €2700.

The 21 might be a challenge that you´d enjoy.  I found that my 21 challenges me significantly as it is the beginning of really wide angle in my world.  I have learned to use it, but have to recalibrate my vision each time I pick it up, unlike my other focal length lenses which are readily usable for me.  On the other hand, the 90 would likely come to your hand easily as the view is not nearly as dramatic as the 21.

[JTLeica]

On 8/4/2024 at 11:51 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

Since you have the SL2, I am inclined to recommend the 35mm APO Summicron SL, as it is the best 35mm lens I have ever seen by a mile, and it is available around that price if you look for awhile. Otherwise I would recommend a 35mm Summilux ASPH or ASPH FLE. You don't have any fast wide angle lenses, and the 35mm ASPH is beautiful at 1.4 and will be useful in low light. If you are doing documentary, portraits and occasional landscapes, the 35mm 1.4 ASPH will serve you really well. Especially on the M10. 

Extremely sound advice. I second that about the APO lens and feel you will not lose anything buying a used APO lens.

No improvement in these lenses will be needed for possibly a decade. So money well spent and buy used will always protect you somewhat.

That said, an FLE was going to be my recommendation, or the Pre FLE lux as it’s holing great value now.

Or, put your voucher on red or black down the casino, if you lose you don’t have to make a choice, if you win you can buy a 35 apo M

[Al Brown]

On 8/4/2024 at 10:50 PM, jaapv said:

When I bought the Super Elmar I compared it to the Zeiss. No contest I bought the SE for a considerably larger amount. 

 

On 8/4/2024 at 10:58 PM, Xavier said:

I second that. I had the Zeiss and moved to the SEM when I could.

 

On 8/5/2024 at 3:25 PM, Stuart Richardson said:

The Zeiss is a superb lens on film, but it was designed more for film

The OP never asked for "best in class" lens. He just asked for advice on how to get the most of his coupon. His specific wording was "invest in something different", how to maximize his price/performance gain with the money, not buying the best/most expensive lens from a certain focal length.

My new old stock copy of Biogon 18 is simply stellar. No purple edges, no loss of sharpness in the edges as described by posters above and it could hardly be sharper, coming from a very demanding pixel peeper. I use it for all my wide angle needs below 35mm. Have gone through several lenses in the process of searching for the ultimate UWA, including Leica, Voigtlander and several others, this is where the f stopped (pun intended).

Edited August 7 by Al Brown

[jaapv]

3-1 That is quite a bit of sample variation. 

[newtoleica]

The Summilux 35 ASPH and the Summilux 24mm ASPH are my two Leica lenses. The 24 is above your range, but the 35 is the classic photojournalism lens. It’s compact, fast and renders beautifully, much nicer than the FLE. Value of a good 35 ASPH also holds steady in the range you need.

[feelssadman]

Thank you all for the very interesting recommendations. I've gone through all of them and I am currently doing research on every lens suggested so far. I feel like I felt into a deep rabbit hole that's not going to end or that ends up just where I came from. The Summilux 35 ASPH. (pre-FLE) is fantastic but apparently suffers from a lot of focus shift, thus bringing me to a used FLE, which requires me to probably sell two lenses to afford it and still drop a bit of cash on top. Then again, my Biogon is good on the M10 (not always on the SL2) and you are right, I am missing something fast in that regard.

Reading reviews about the Summilux 35, I stumbled over the Simera 35/1.4 and then Thypoch's other lens, the Simera 28/1.4, which both render so beautifully warm with very smooth bokeh. While not as sharp as the Summilux, it seems to get only positive feedback all over the internet with the expection of the infinity lock and the non-existant focus tab, which isn't really a problem for me but leaves me wondering if it can really be that good. I compared it to the Voigtländer 28/1.5 Nokton and still prefer the images of the Simera (no purple fringing, warmer color rendition).* Now, after changing my mind about where I use a 21mm (or if the size really bothers me), getting both the Simera 35 and 28 leaves me with just enough to get the Nokton 21/1.4 as well (I am aware that I am breaking a rule that I previously set with this). It might not reach the optical quality of the SEM but apart from that, there's nothing to really look at - the Zeiss 21/2.8 as well as the  Elmarit 21/2,8 are outdated since they was designed for film, and the smaller Voigtländer 21/3.5 Ultron suffers from field curvature, impacting landscape/architecture photos.

*Edit: The Zeiss Distagon 35/1.4 might be a bit too big for me but I am not sure yet, given that I want to carry it in my bag every day. I could, however, buy this and the Nokton 21/1.4 and utilize the full amount on the coupon (combined with selling the Biogon).

I think 18mm is a bit too wide as a single option since it does require very specific situations, therefore I'd rather stick to 21mm at the long end. I've seen a WATE in very good condition, but unfortunately outside of this seller's stock (I can only buy something from the dealer for which the coupon applies to).

Regarding the 35mm APO Summicron SL, I feel that it might be too large to bring it with me all the time. My 28/50 live in my bag with either the SL2 or M10, often with the Biogon. Otherwise, I just take the M10 and 40mm Heliar - the 75mm stays at home for most of the time. I do not necessarily value compactness in every case, but I do for focal lengths that I would often use, if this makes any sense. Speaking of sense, I hope that I do not contradict myself (apart from the point mentioned before) because it seems to be more of an emotional than a very rational decision to me.
The rational solution would probably be, as @Al Brown suggested, buying a hot lens and selling it on the private market. The problem is, however, that this is not really possible due to the contraints in my country (missing platform, not enough people using Leica that would buy on a platform that is not owned by a shop because, again, there is not really a good place to sell second hand items (there are initiatives, however)). I'd consider this if I knew that there's someone interested in such a deal in this forum, but the risk of buying something and being stuck with it is one I only want to take when I can trust the potential seller.

Coming back to the SL-system, it might be worth to check L-mount lenses such as the 16-28 and 28-70 from Sigma but then I could only use them on the SL2, rendering them less useful since I lost the option to use them on the M. This is something I optimally do not want to lose. I checked out the Ricoh GR as a P&S to keep in my pockets but I would add one more body, reducing the use the others get. In any case, I am waiting for the GRIV to see if I want to gamble. I am currently checking if it makes sense to upgrade to the SL3 with the intention of purely using my M-lenses on it. I'd profit from the better sensor and the added dial to set to ISO (anything else, really?) but I don't know if the changed ergonomics is something I like.

Ultimately, I get the feeling that I either currently don't want to spent more money to make the big purchases (i.e. used Summilux FLE and/or new SEM), to make a few smaller purchases (21, 28 and/or 35 within the limit) or to just wait and do nothing at all until I wake up one day and really want something. Given that I do not really have a desire right now and have this coupon sitting around, I think my problem is that I do not really know what I want (and that I do not suffer from GAS anymore). I wish this were the worst problem we had in our lives 😁

Thanks again for taking the time! I really appreciate it.

Edited August 8 by feelssadman

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[feelssadman]

1 hour ago, feelssadman said:

[...] and the smaller Voigtländer 21/3.5 Ultron suffers from field curvature, impacting landscape/architecture photos.

Can't edit my previous post. I meant the Voigtlander Color-Skopar 3,5/21 mm VM and focus curvature here, as mentioned in this review by Jack Takahashi and others.

"Do I recommend it? Yes, with three exceptions. First, if you’re planning on doing lots of landscapes, you should probably save up the money and just get the Leica 21mm f/3.4, which is at least as sharp but without the focus curvature. Second, if you care less about size and weight, consider the Voigtlander 21mm f/1.8 (review) and the Voigtlander 21mm f/1.4 (review), which have great image quality and give you the option of shooting at really wide apertures."

If I knew that this would not bother me I'd go for it in an instant. The 21/1.8 is not available. Also, forget the upgrade to the SL3.

Edited August 8 by feelssadman