What is the best autofocus mode for hip shooting in street photography?

[JLV]

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Hi,

With a SL2S and a 35 SL cron asph, I use most of the time the (AFs) Field mode.

I prefer to bring the camera to my eye and shoot but sometimes, I can't and shoot from the hip.

Despite a reasonable aperture - depth of field (f8) for exemple I sometimes do not get my subject (target) in focus.

Is there a more appropriate mode to avoid this?

What are your experience and tips?

Thanks for taking time to answer

 

[Ken Abrahams]

I would treat the camera as if it were manual focus camera and set focus to aprox 1.5-2.0 metres (for street)  Set camera to MF so it wont activate the autofocus when pressing the shutter. Shoot from the hip by judging the distance to subjects at the set focus. You could also use the flip screen and look downwards like a waist level finder and just use the auto functions.  Best to make sure the shutter is always above 1000 and watch out for the rolling shutter.  

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[jaapv]

I think that the problem is not so much the mode, but the AF speed. You could try Smart AF and Multifield.

[JLV]

Thank you Ken and JAAPV

@ Ken,

I have a M11 and some M lenses.That's the way I use them when shooting from the hip with the M or when I put M lenses on the SL2s.

The speed is always over 1000 or more and the blur is not the problem.

My point was about the autofocus modes.

There is no flip screen on the SL2s.

@JAAPV

I am going to try this and will come back to you with the results!

 

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to answer.

Best,

[rcusick]

Aperture priority. F8.  Auto iso.  Back button focus.  

[Jeff S]

18 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

You could also use the flip screen and look downwards like a waist level finder and just use the auto functions.  

Not with his camera.

Jeff

[Ko.Fe.]

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Why are you limiting at f8?

f16 is just as reasonable. 

With this you are less likely to miss it in af, if focus points are not all in the center. 

Edited July 3 by Ko.Fe.

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. repost

Edited July 3 by Avatar

[Ko.Fe.]

18 hours ago, JLV said:

Thank you Ken and JAAPV

@ Ken,

I have a M11 and some M lenses.That's the way I use them when shooting from the hip with the M or when I put M lenses on the SL2s.

The speed is always over 1000 or more and the blur is not the problem.

My point was about the autofocus modes.

There is no flip screen on the SL2s.

@JAAPV

I am going to try this and will come back to you with the results!

 

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to answer.

Best,

You don't need more than 1/1000 . It could be even less if camera is not articulated too fast. 

Big names in street photography from the past were pushing film in film Ms @1000 to be able to use 1/1000 in the daylight.  But 1/1000 is to cover all scenarios.  Like Winogrand's pedestrian in cowboy hat jumping on the sidewalk. Here is no need for 1/1000 in Herzog's man with the bandaid.  Compared to film, you could and should adjust exposure parameters accordingly to the available light.

Edited July 3 by Ko.Fe.

[Ken Abrahams]

1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said:

You don't need more than 1/1000 . It could be even less if camera is not articulated too fast. 

Big names in street photography from the past were pushing film in film Ms @1000 to be able to use 1/1000 in the daylight.  But 1/1000 is to cover all scenarios.  Like Winogrand's pedestrian in cowboy hat jumping on the sidewalk. Here is no need for 1/1000 in Herzog's man with the bandaid.  Compared to film, you could and should adjust exposure parameters accordingly to the available light.

I shoot from the hip using f1.4 and f2.0, Ko. It is very helpful to have a motion stopping exposure especially if both photographer and subject are moving. There are so many variables involved and the idea is to get useable images and that is why I suggested JLV the manual option because AF from the hip is terrible and pushing ones luck even further into the abyss. There are considerations if both subject and photographer are standing still and the subject is filling the frame for the AF to latch on to.  I guess one needs to define what "shooting from the hip" means in each case? I see this shooting method involving movement and involves shooting "on the fly" while walking or semi stationary. If one can keep the shutter speed up around 1000 it covers various exposures when walking in and out of light, therefore effectively shooting between 1/500-1/3000 sec. Eliminating variables that diminish the hit rate is a good idea. No? Then the main challenge shooting from the hip becomes getting the focus right. Ninety percent of my street images are "shot from the hip" literally. The camera rests on the top of my shoulder bag unlike Alan Schaller who tends to hold the camera in front of his body.

So then challenge is to set the focus to 1.5-2 metres and walk into your subject, shooting when you are in that range. I have shot at f8 with 21, 35 and 28 mm M lenses and the hit rate is better however images shot at 1.4 are betterer to look at. AF lenses are to cumbersome and depending on what one is shooting a terrible idea for street shooting - from the hip. This image shot this morning on the way to hospital ISO 500, Summilux M 35 lens at f2, 1/6400 sec on the SL3. I was stationary and people walking fast around the corner into the light. 

Best

Ken  

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Edited July 3 by Ken Abrahams

[Ko.Fe.]

5 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

I shoot from the hip using f1.4 and f2.0, Ko. It is very helpful to have a motion stopping exposure especially if both photographer and subject are moving. There are so many variables involved and the idea is to get useable images and that is why I suggested JLV the manual option because AF from the hip is terrible and pushing ones luck even further into the abyss. There are considerations if both subject and photographer are standing still and the subject is filling the frame for the AF to latch on to.  I guess one needs to define what "shooting from the hip" means in each case? I see this shooting method involving movement and involves shooting "on the fly" while walking or semi stationary. If one can keep the shutter speed up around 1000 it covers various exposures when walking in and out of light, therefore effectively shooting between 1/500-1/3000 sec. Eliminating variables that diminish the hit rate is a good idea. No? Then the main challenge shooting from the hip becomes getting the focus right. Ninety percent of my street images are "shot from the hip" literally. The camera rests on the top of my shoulder bag unlike Alan Schaller who tends to hold the camera in front of his body.

So then challenge is to set the focus to 1.5-2 metres and walk into your subject, shooting when you are in that range. I have shot at f8 with 21, 35 and 28 mm M lenses and the hit rate is better however images shot at 1.4 are betterer to look at. AF lenses are to cumbersome and depending on what one is shooting a terrible idea for street shooting - from the hip. This image shot this morning on the way to hospital ISO 500, Summilux M 35 lens at f2, 1/6400 sec on the SL3. I was stationary and people walking fast around the corner into the light. 

Best

Ken  

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Hit rate to me depending of my understanding of what I'm doing. 

Hip or not is not relevant for motion blur.  

If I want hit rate of 100%, I'm checking, adjusting to the light as I walk. And I adjust ISO or shutter speed or aperture, even all

If I'm lazy, I rarely choose 1/1000, but 1/500 or even less. 

I set apperture to have deep DOF and ISO does auto, if camera supports it.

I don't get motion blur by walking and my subjects are walking towards me. 

1/3000 is totally unnecessary for street photography. Except you are photographing BIF on the street. 

I don't like my cameras going on 1/6400 for no reason. I choose large apertures for thier original intentions, to gather more light. 

Your image would be the same @f8, with something like 1/2000 at f2.

 

[Ken Abrahams]

11 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Hit rate to me depending of my understanding of what I'm doing. 

Hip or not is not relevant for motion blur.  

If I want hit rate of 100%, I'm checking, adjusting to the light as I walk. And I adjust ISO or shutter speed or aperture, even all

If I'm lazy, I rarely choose 1/1000, but 1/500 or even less. 

I set apperture to have deep DOF and ISO does auto, if camera supports it.

I don't get motion blur by walking and my subjects are walking towards me. 

1/3000 is totally unnecessary for street photography. Except you are photographing BIF on the street. 

I don't like my cameras going on 1/6400 for no reason. I choose large apertures for thier original intentions, to gather more light. 

Your image would be the same @f8, with something like 1/2000 at f2.

 

Well I am glad you have your own system KO and presented here in dot points. I must be doing things terribly wrong or that is what I sense from your reply.    

Best

Ken

[Insoc57]

Hello there. Photography is about having fun, at least for me. I’ve done street photography with a lot of cameras, all in auto focus mode and currently use a Fuji GFX100II. I have started to practice with manual focus/zone focusing using 1/1000 at f8 and to my surprise, I get more in focus photos than when using auto focus. I SHOT FROM THE HIP. I’m staring to believe what I’ve read about street photography and manual focus as the best combination. Now MY QUESTION: I’ve never used a rangefinder camera but have always be tempered to buy a M camera. Would it be a waste if I bought a M10 or M11 for mostly street photography and shooting from the hip with almost a pre set focus and f8 aperture?  I mean, like 2.5m or infinity at f8 and just forget about it and start shooting form the hip almost like if it was a point and shoot camera? I love my GFX100II but it gets heavy after some minutes walking and walking and it’s very heavy. I love how light and small the Leica M cameras are in comparison. Any suggestions or opinions would be appreciated. Thank you!

[Anakronox]

I shoot a lot from the hip with a 28mm, f/8, pre-focused to 2m and find this works best for me.  However, I am much more of a “hunter” and not a “fisher.”  I’m constantly moving and found that I get so many more keepers this way, especially when shooting with an M.  

[chrismuc]

I do street photography from hip level very most of the time because it’s IMO the best perspective. But that requires a camera with flip screen like SL3 or S1R, otherwise framing is pure luck. I prefer focal lengths between 35 and 85 and mostly f1.4 to f2 (or max f2.8) for better subject separation from background, MF or AF depending on camera and situation. Exposure time 1/125 or shorter, to avoid motion blur (if not by purpose) but not unnecessary high to to avoid high ISO. 

[Ken Abrahams]

On 7/5/2024 at 12:41 PM, Anakronox said:

I shoot a lot from the hip with a 28mm, f/8, pre-focused to 2m and find this works best for me.  However, I am much more of a “hunter” and not a “fisher.”  I’m constantly moving and found that I get so many more keepers this way, especially when shooting with an M.  

I also use the 28 lens Anakronox. I extensively used the 35 Summicron M to start with and found this lens much better than the 35 Summilux because of the barrel size of the Summicron being smaller as the camera rests on my bag at the right angle. I had to fiddle around with the Summilux quite a bit and made it work by adjusting my shoulder bag height. The 21 SEM gives the most hit rate however timing of shots is imperative. The ability to crop images afterwards with the 21 worked quite well for the framing. I am always moving and subjects can be sitting or stationary or walking towards me. It's a matter of practicing a lot to get the focus just right. Last year I switched to shooting 1.4 and although my hit rate went down my images improved threefold. I am always adjusting exposure and ISO every lighting shift and or direction I am walking in so there is a lot of work, a lot of variables. Having the camera set on continuous shooting mode and judging where the centre of the lens is to the subject position also took practice. I found it better to shoot late as I walked past. Focus point set between 1.5 and 2 metres, walking into subject shooting as I get closer, hoping one frame will achieve critical focus.  All of the above work while at the same time anticipating scenes and peoples movements for best subjects.

 

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[Jean-Michel]

The real question is: why?

If you just be a street voyeur, just get an iPhone or such and you can be as invisible as anyone. 

My first question when I was giving nude photography workshops was: are you prepared to pose nude too? Same for street photography: are you ok with the guy with the camera to be taking pictures of you in secret?

Try to engage with your subject, chances are that you will both enjoy the encounter.

[Anakronox]

17 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

I also use the 28 lens Anakronox. I extensively used the 35 Summicron M to start with and found this lens much better than the 35 Summilux because of the barrel size of the Summicron being smaller as the camera rests on my bag at the right angle. I had to fiddle around with the Summilux quite a bit and made it work by adjusting my shoulder bag height. The 21 SEM gives the most hit rate however timing of shots is imperative. The ability to crop images afterwards with the 21 worked quite well for the framing. I am always moving and subjects can be sitting or stationary or walking towards me. It's a matter of practicing a lot to get the focus just right. Last year I switched to shooting 1.4 and although my hit rate went down my images improved threefold. I am always adjusting exposure and ISO every lighting shift and or direction I am walking in so there is a lot of work, a lot of variables. Having the camera set on continuous shooting mode and judging where the centre of the lens is to the subject position also took practice. I found it better to shoot late as I walked past. Focus point set between 1.5 and 2 metres, walking into subject shooting as I get closer, hoping one frame will achieve critical focus.  All of the above work while at the same time anticipating scenes and peoples movements for best subjects.

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Ken, thanks for sharing your experience.  I’m with you on the continuous mode setup as well!  If I’m not completely sure I’ll be at the proper distance I will just take several frames and at least one will be focused well enough.  The wide angle lets me straighten a bit or crop some if my composition isn’t where I want it.  Sometimes I want it to feel loose and dynamic and it all depends on the scene.  I suppose the big takeaway from this thread is that everyone has different methods of going about street shooting and there is no definitive, unimpeachable process.  If I had to give advice to anyone, it’s to try to mix it up and figure out what suits you and the photos you want to take.  I hope that by this time next year I’ll have learned some new tricks!

[Ken Abrahams]

8 hours ago, Jean-Michel said:

The real question is: why?

 

Good question Jean Michel 

basically I prefer capturing humans being human, candidly. I am sure that I would enjoy the interaction when engaging the subject, sometimes I do. I don’t want a street portrait, I want candid images as natural as they can be in the genre of Street Photography. One shot sticks in my mind, by Strand when he captures the blind woman begging but with one eye open. 
best

ken

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[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, Ken Abrahams said:

One shot sticks in my mind, by Strand when he captures the blind woman begging but with one eye open. 
 

 

He used a false lens attached to the side of the camera so that he could appear to point his camera in a different direction than he was shooting.

One of my favorite photographers, who was atypically successful in many different photographic genres.

Jeff