B&W Red Orange Yellow Green Filters

[widegray]

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Does anybody use filters with Monochrom Leica Cameras? Any good or critical experience ?

I know that such precious Wertzlar lenses cannot be optically contaminated by any glass in front of them, but B&W images on the field (to much grass and trees) or portraits or fog conditions could take advantage by contrast dominance on shot reducing postproduction.  

I have best results and benefits by filters with M Monochrom (CCD Typ220) better than Q2 Monochrom.

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[pedaes]

23 minutes ago, widegray said:

ilters with Monochrom

I suggest you use the "Search" function as there is lots of advice, discussion and examples in the Monochrom camera Threads, starting way back with the M9.

[Stuart Richardson]

I used to use some filters on film, but generally don't use any these days either on film or the m10m. Part of it is that one of the main use cases of filters on film was to increase contrast, not necessarily the spectrum changes. This was especially useful in the darkroom as multigrade paper only has 6 grades (0-5). With graded paper it was even more important as you could not burn in a different contrast, so you either had to control contrast with development, or filtration. With digital we have essentially infinite contrast. We can just boost the contrast slider as much as we want, or just mess around with curves if that is not enough. Generally I have found that the monochrom cameras benefit more from filters that have more dramatic effects, rather than the more subtle older filters that would help give a bit of contrast with black and white films. With them I think you might as well just boost the contrast slightly in post and not lose the light that you filter out (if nothing else, your shutter speeds will be 1-2 stops higher...or the aperture a bit more stopped down. Generally that is going to benefit you, but of course not always). That said, using an orange or red filter or even an infrared filter is going to give you some more interesting results and something that you cannot easily achieve in post. So at least for me, I tend to carry an orange filter and an IR filter with my M10M. The rest I can do in post.

[jaapv]

Never without  on my M9M- my basic filter is deep yellow but I will change them as the subject demands.

[pippy]

4 hours ago, widegray said:

Does anybody use filters with Monochrom Leica Cameras?...

All the time.

As pedaes suggested in post #2 you should use the 'Search' function to review the dozens of threads already posted on this subject over the decades.

Have Fun!

Philip.

[fotomas]

Therefor I bought the Monochrom. I made a comparison how the filters act with the M 246 and b&w film in the german forum.

[widegray]

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Thanks to all!

@fotomas: I'll try to read a google-traslation, thanks.

@jaapv: very interesting, M9M ever plus deep yellow

@Staurt: thanks, for your experience and for the nostalgic memories of film and paper process, too ... 

[pippy]

17 hours ago, widegray said:

Does anybody use filters with Monochrom Leica Cameras? Any good or critical experience ?

I know that such precious Wertzlar lenses cannot be optically contaminated by any glass in front of them, but B&W images on the field (to much grass and trees) or portraits or fog conditions could take advantage by contrast dominance on shot reducing postproduction.  

I have best results and benefits by filters with M Monochrom (CCD Typ220) better than Q2 Monochrom.

If it might be of any use here's a Cut'n'Paste of a post I wrote last year which shows how Red, Orange, Yellow, Green and Blue filters alter tones when shooting foliage;

"...here's a rapidly rattled-off series posted as very low res so as to get them in one post(!). Weather was rubbish - it was raining - and there was no direct sun.

First pairing - as a 'control' - is 'Bare' shot on the Monochrom along with one frame showing the same scene in colour shot on the M-D Typ-262;

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The rest are pairs of images shot in order of coulours of the visible spectrum alongside the same control image as seen above left. Filters used were standard Leitz Red, Orange, Yellow, Green and, lastly, Blue. In all cases left-hand image is the 'control'. No reworking has been done and metering was as camera said was 'correct'.

Red;

 

Orange;

 

Yellow;

 

Green;

 

Blue;

Philip."

The thread was asking, specifically, about using a Green filter but there is some other stuff in here which could be helpful;

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/380568-green-filters-not-popular/#comment-4829009

P.

[AceVentura1986]

I use orange BW filters on my M9M and my M10M. Never take them off, even indoors. I like the way it renders human skin and adds contrast to the sky separating the blue from white clouds. 

[ramarren]

20 hours ago, widegray said:

Does anybody use filters with Monochrom Leica Cameras? Any good or critical experience ?

I know that such precious Wertzlar lenses cannot be optically contaminated by any glass in front of them, but B&W images on the field (to much grass and trees) or portraits or fog conditions could take advantage by contrast dominance on shot reducing postproduction.  

I have best results and benefits by filters with M Monochrom (CCD Typ220) better than Q2 Monochrom.

Of course. For my shooting with the M10 Monochrom, I find a green filter is my most common choice ... it does a lovely job of subtly expanding tonalities. Orange and yellow filters tend to increase contrast and reduce tonal differentiation, in my experience. 

I did a bunch of testing using an Xrite Color Checker as my basis. Here's the orange-green results: 

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And a broader set of results with red, orange, yellow, green, and blue filters: 

https://flic.kr/p/2oudh5u

https://flic.kr/p/2oufwVz

Hope that's useful to you. 

G

[fotomas]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb widegray:

Thanks to all!

@fotomas: I'll try to read a google-traslation, thanks.

What I wrote in short: I did this test before in the same thread, but it has some problems. I forgot my M6 at home, so I had to use a Canon with a different lens for the film shots, and I'm afraid I had one wrong picture in there. Also I did it under artificial light.

So I made a new test, now with my M6 and my M246, all with the Summicron 50 V. Film this time was ADOX CHS 25 (Kodak TRI-X in the test before).

The files of the M 246 came out dark as usual, so I had to brighten them up to match the scans from the film. Beside the color picture there is a file from the M 246 without filter unprocessed, so you get an impression. I didn't had tested out the ideal filter factors for each filter for this film. So I need some adjustment on the scans as well. Mostly I had to make them darker. But anyway the effect off the filters at the M 246 is clear to see. I wonder that it came out so close to the film image. The film seems to have a bit higher sensitivity for blue and a bit less on red.

Left side is film, right side M 246. Filters in the order down from the top:

1. no filter
2. yellow
3. orange
4. red
5. dark red
6. yellow-green
7. green
8. blue (KB 20)

[Eoin]

I use a B+W Orange on the Q2M and a Leitz Series VII Orange on the M11M-24 Summilux by default. I love using and experimenting with filters, such fun re-discovering the tools and techniques I learnt as a kid. All that’s missing is the obnoxious chemicals we exposed ourselves to. 

Absolutely, filters and darkroom techniques (post processing and printing skills now) are the key to getting the best from the “light” you’ve recorded on a monochrome sensor.
I’ve become smitten with Leica’s monochrome sensors, photography has become joyously addictive and gratifying again.

I’ve no hard and fast rule I follow, The basic RGB set and choose a yellow or orange for mid contrast lift if needed. 
 

[ramarren]

On 6/26/2024 at 11:54 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

I used to use some filters on film, but generally don't use any these days either on film or the m10m. Part of it is that one of the main use cases of filters on film was to increase contrast, not necessarily the spectrum changes. ... 

Well, not exactly. For example: if you have two things in the viewfinder, one green and one red, and you photograph them with a typical panchromatic B&W film (or sensor), in the photo that results you will not be able to distinguish between the two objects as they will reproduce with the same tonal intensity.

The use of filters in B&W photography is always to control the tonal balance in the translation from a color world to a monochromatic photograph. The effect of doing this tonal balance adjustment with filters can result in more (or less) contrast, depending upon what the colors in the original scene were and the spectral response of the recording medium is.

Example number two: a blue sky with fleecy clouds in it will often just look like a bland mixture of white and gray in black and white. Fitting a yellow or red filter pushes down the intensity of the blue and leaves the brightness of the fleecy clouds bright so that they stand out better, the perceptual effect of "increasing the contrast". You cannot get quite the same effect by manipulating the contrast on a B&W digital capture because there's only so much room to move before you either burn the high lights or dissolve the finer details by dipping into the noise threshold. And similarly, if you used a blue filter, you'll brighten the blue of the sky relative to the white clouds, with the effect of reducing contrast and making the clouds disappear, giving you the overall look of shooting an evenly overcast sky. 

If you study the chart I posted a couple of messages back in this thread, you can track how the green and orange filters affect the color relationships in the Xrite Color Checker and modify the resulting tonal intensities very clearly. Use of the right filter can cut down the amount of localized tonal editing you need to do in rendering a photo to almost nothing, which in my book is always a good thing.

G

[patrickcolpron]

On 6/26/2024 at 8:00 PM, widegray said:

Does anybody use filters with Monochrom Leica Cameras? Any good or critical experience ?

I strangely always use yellow filters with the M10-Monochrom. old habit as I always used yellow filters with black and white film, which I still do to this day.

Yellow filters because I shoot people and to me, the skin tones are then much clearer, more white on a black and white sensor, like it was on film, less grey if that makes any sense.

Just an old habit I carried over from my film days which are still ongoing.  

[ramarren]

Try a light- or yellow-green filter with the M10 Monochrom. To me, it is a near perfect match to the M10-M sensor for a best balance of color translation into gray tones.

G

[widegray]

Hi all, and many thanks for sharing ideas, practice, exprience and talk.

My meaningful examples Q2M (B+W Pro filters):

YELLOW

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RED

ORANGE

 

All 3 images are "worked with Lr", mine isn't a scientific comparison (raw data) but a "how to work with" comparison

Red ok for having contrast in the cloudy sky.

Yellow ok for Street background with people and contrast 

Orange effects in the middle 

Torino, Italy, Piazza Castello with Italian Rationalism Tower: realized on 1931-1934, the tallest building in Europe up to 1952, 21 floors, 87 mt tall.

Nowadays it's a stupid dwarf.

 

[Dsauro]

On 6/26/2024 at 11:54 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

I used to use some filters on film, but generally don't use any these days either on film or the m10m. Part of it is that one of the main use cases of filters on film was to increase contrast, not necessarily the spectrum changes. This was especially useful in the darkroom as multigrade paper only has 6 grades (0-5). With graded paper it was even more important as you could not burn in a different contrast, so you either had to control contrast with development, or filtration. With digital we have essentially infinite contrast. We can just boost the contrast slider as much as we want, or just mess around with curves if that is not enough. Generally I have found that the monochrom cameras benefit more from filters that have more dramatic effects, rather than the more subtle older filters that would help give a bit of contrast with black and white films. With them I think you might as well just boost the contrast slightly in post and not lose the light that you filter out (if nothing else, your shutter speeds will be 1-2 stops higher...or the aperture a bit more stopped down. Generally that is going to benefit you, but of course not always). That said, using an orange or red filter or even an infrared filter is going to give you some more interesting results and something that you cannot easily achieve in post. So at least for me, I tend to carry an orange filter and an IR filter with my M10M. The rest I can do in post.

 

[Dsauro]

Hi Stuart

What type of IR filter are you using?  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M