M11 intermittent over exposure

[Viv]

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I have not had this problem with my M11; although I never use auto ISO.

Having years of film photography behind me, auto ISO just seems bizarre and untrustworthy.

More often than not, I shoot in full manual mode.

[Derbyshire Man]

24 minutes ago, Viv said:

I have not had this problem with my M11; although I never use auto ISO.

Having years of film photography behind me, auto ISO just seems bizarre and untrustworthy.

More often than not, I shoot in full manual mode.

I think I'm coming around to that view!

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[SrMi]

5 hours ago, Viv said:

I have not had this problem with my M11; although I never use auto ISO.

Having years of film photography behind me, auto ISO just seems bizarre and untrustworthy.

More often than not, I shoot in full manual mode.

Once you understand that ISO does not matter much in digital (unlike in film), you may want to try Auto-ISO. When there is enough time, a manual exposure setting may be the most fulfilling method.

Has anyone seen intermittent overexposure with manual ISO and in A mode?

[PeterKelly]

5 hours ago, Viv said:

I have not had this problem with my M11; although I never use auto ISO.

Having years of film photography behind me, auto ISO just seems bizarre and untrustworthy.

More often than not, I shoot in full manual mode.

If the metering is occasionally fooled by dark shadows it presumably would also overexpose in the same situation in aperture priority.

i do shoot in full manual when I can but as I have said before auto iso is very useful in “ run and gun” street photography particularly in surroundings with sun and shadows.

i have shot this way extensively with other cameras (including the Q2M and Q3) without encountering these issues. It’s disappointing that the M11 had occasional overexposure issues particularly after there was a firmware update which was supposed to fix this.

[crons]

13 hours ago, Viv said:

I have not had this problem with my M11; although I never use auto ISO.

Having years of film photography behind me, auto ISO just seems bizarre and untrustworthy.

More often than not, I shoot in full manual mode.

The only way to shoot 😀 .. 

 

7 hours ago, SrMi said:

Once you understand that ISO does not matter much in digital (unlike in film), you may want to try Auto-ISO. When there is enough time, a manual exposure setting may be the most fulfilling method.

Has anyone seen intermittent overexposure with manual ISO and in A mode?

Thank God you're here to lecture this guy about what he doesn’t understand. 😅

I think we need an intervention to get you off the Auto addiction. It may be obsessive compulsive disorder with the EC dial. 

But no. I don't think anyone has seen over exposure with all manual. If they have then their camera is faulty. 

7 hours ago, PeterKelly said:

i do shoot in full manual when I can but as I have said before auto iso is very useful in “ run and gun” street photography particularly in surroundings with sun and shadows.

There is something to that if the exposure where you are is consistent. If it's not then manual is best because what you're exposing is your subject. You make a decision. Are they in the shadows or in the light? And you expose for that. 

It's a different game with an EVF mirrorless camera. I can have my center meter follow the AF point. So auto settings work on those cameras. 

I still work with manual settings no matter where I am. 

The old timers were working with the old film cameras and guys like bresson and winogrand managed to capture split second moments with all manual slow film cameras. 

[Rollei35]

16 hours ago, Viv said:

I have not had this problem with my M11; although I never use auto ISO.

Having years of film photography behind me, auto ISO just seems bizarre and untrustworthy.

More often than not, I shoot in full manual mode.

Unless you go with full manual mode, the auto ISO is the most reliable feature.

In the leica M world, aperture is obviously manual, you are left with ISO and SS. Auto SS is way more unreliable.

 

[lct]

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Old timers like yours truly had a Leicameter and a Viooh finder in the seventies. I would have dreamed of auto iso and a Visoflex 2 then.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Viv]

5 hours ago, Rollei35 said:

Unless you go with full manual mode, the auto ISO is the most reliable feature.

In the leica M world, aperture is obviously manual, you are left with ISO and SS. Auto SS is way more unreliable.

 

With respect, I disagree.

Also, it is perfectly possible to shoot in Shutter Priority Mode.

Edited June 23 by Viv

[SrMi]

43 minutes ago, Viv said:

With respect, I disagree.

Also, it is perfectly possible to shoot in Shutter Priority Mode.

While it may have its uses, in Shutter Priority Mode, the camera changes aperture at will, which changes the image content (DOF varies). How do you deal with that? It can work in low light when the aperture is wide open.

Of course, there is no Shutter Priority Mode in M cameras.

[Viv]

3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

While it may have its uses, in Shutter Priority Mode, the camera changes aperture at will, which changes the image content (DOF varies). How do you deal with that? It can work in low light when the aperture is wide open.

Of course, there is no Shutter Priority Mode in M cameras.

My M11 allows me to shoot in Shutter Priority Mode, with the aid of the red triangles in the viewfinder, which indicate under or over exposure for any set shutter speed.

Does yours not?

[SrMi]

16 minutes ago, Viv said:

My M11 allows me to shoot in Shutter Priority Mode, with the aid of the red triangles in the viewfinder, which indicate under or over exposure for any set shutter speed.

Does yours not?

Shutter Priority Mode means that you set the shutter speed and the camera sets the aperture. M cameras cannot automatically change aperture on M lenses.

What you are probably thinking of is the Manual mode, where you have fixed ISO and change shutter speed and aperture manually.

[Viv]

4 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Shutter Priority Mode means that you set the shutter speed and the camera sets the aperture. M cameras cannot automatically change aperture on M lenses.

What you are probably thinking of is the Manual mode, where you have fixed ISO and change shutter speed and aperture manually.

Correct. Thank you.

[PeterKelly]

Shot on Sunday with the M11 and had about 12 over exposed frames in 260 so almost 5% It happened in both manual with Auto ISO enabled and aperture priority. Most of the overexposed frames (but not all) occurred in shots with high contrast where the meter appears to get confused and boosts the ISO by 3 or 4 stops. 
 

I will continue to experiment today and see if I can discern a pattern or if it occurs with manual ISO. Despite others opinion I am loathe to give up on Auto ISO which I find very helpful. 

[elmars]

Did You use Liveview?

[PeterKelly]

20 minutes ago, elmars said:

Did You use Liveview?

No I didn’t 

[crons]

On 6/23/2024 at 10:27 AM, lct said:

Old timers like yours truly had a Leicameter and a Viooh finder in the seventies. I would have dreamed of auto iso and a Visoflex 2 then.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

With enough practice you should be able to look outside or where you're going to take photos and know what ISO you need. Personally I know I need a high enough ISO to stay around 1/250 minimum. I choose it and forget it. 

Edited July 2 by crons

[crons]

2 hours ago, PeterKelly said:

Shot on Sunday with the M11 and had about 12 over exposed frames in 260 so almost 5% It happened in both manual with Auto ISO enabled and aperture priority. Most of the overexposed frames (but not all) occurred in shots with high contrast where the meter appears to get confused and boosts the ISO by 3 or 4 stops. 
 

I will continue to experiment today and see if I can discern a pattern or if it occurs with manual ISO. Despite others opinion I am loathe to give up on Auto ISO which I find very helpful. 

I find auto iso extremely unpredictable. Well I guess you're finding that out the hard way. 

But if you like the messy auto iso style then this is something you're going to have to live with. This was supposed to be fixed in an old firmware update but as it is  typical with the M11 and things supposed to be resolved in updates, it didn't resolve it on yours.

Personally I would simplify my life and choose the ISO manually.

Set it and forget it. Try this. Next time you go shoot in the daytime choose ISO400 on the dial and leave it there. Pretend you're shooting Portra400. 

Try it. 

Edited July 2 by crons

[lct]

1 minute ago, crons said:

With enough practice you should ge able to look outside or where you're going to take photos and know what ISO you need [...]

First M4 in 1971 here. My teachers were brilliant HCB's followers so my case is desperate i'm afraid 😄

[crons]

28 minutes ago, lct said:

First M4 in 1971 here. My teachers were brilliant HCB's followers so my case is desperate i'm afraid 😄

Let your photos speak for themselves. After all. A picture is worth 1000 words. 

Edited July 2 by crons

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[SrMi]

2 hours ago, crons said:

I find auto iso extremely unpredictable. Well I guess you're finding that out the hard way. 

I use Auto ISO on SL3, Q3, and M11, and except for the rare buggy behavior on M11, Auto ISO performs very predictably (same as any other automatic behavior, A or S mode with fixed ISO). The reported overexposure is due to a bug in M11, not Auto ISO functionality. 

Edited July 2 by SrMi