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Any user of Adobe products should be aware of their latest rights grab. This one is serious enough to have me looking for alternative editing software after 25 years with Adobe. 

https://www.fastcompany.com/91137832/creatives-are-right-to-be-fed-up-with-adobe-and-every-other-tech-company-right-now

 

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With the AI features in Windows 11 with Recall and macOS Sequoia, every app in the universe will be able to rummage through your files.  The only solution is an "air gap" storage system for the files you are not currently using.

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Posted (edited)

When I first subscribed to Adobe, in order to use Lightroom, I was troubled by their questioning whether they had my consent for others to post comments on my images. I sent an inquiry regarding how others were able to see my images, in the first place, in order to be able to comment. Part of what bothered me is that it seemed that Adobe had access to all images in my Apple devices’ photo library, not just the images that I wanted to process with Lightroom. I received no answer, so, I have not used Lightroom. I reckon that my one remaining form of protest is to un-subscribe from their e-mails.

 

Edited by RexGig0
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“eCommerce” differs from pre-internet commerce in some fundamental aspects: in eCommerce consumers “rent” content, access, and capabilities (such as software) whereas pre-Internet commerce offered the consumer the option to “own” (and to “maintain”) the commodity in question. Consumers have been conditioned to prefer the “push” to the “pull” model of software acquisition; they tacitly traded the burden of shopping for the convenience of instant gratification, e.g., the success of Amazon.  Even back in the late 1980’s, when I first started writing software, I often heard the expression “Users are lusers [sic],” and this was before the advent of the “internet” and the emergence the pervasive surveillance capitalism enabled by it.

Many of us are part of the generation spanning the end of the industrial era and the onset of the information era. In an information era, the notion of “ownership” for anyone other than a handful of eCommerce robber-barons is untenable and outmoded. And, to the OP’s point: I  certainly understand consumers’ concerns but I don’t see any easy way to rectify this situation for a variety of reasons—not the least being that the US government lacks the capacity and the desire to attempt to reign in this sector of the global economy. I’ll give the EU the “nod” for at least trying.

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Well, I did more than just un-subscribe to the e-mails. Seeing that my password still worked, and that I could get into my account, I first verified that I had no files present in their system, then followed the steps to remove my account. In the check boxes, that requested my reason(s), I checked the box indicating that I was concerned about my personal information, another box that seemed relevant, then the box for “Other.” In the space provided, next to the “Other” box, I typed a four-letter word for copulation, and then “Adobe.”

Normally, I try to be a gentleman, but, I was not born a gentlemen, and in my senior years, am less inclined to act like a gentleman.

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29 minutes ago, Tom R said:

“eCommerce” differs from pre-internet commerce in some fundamental aspects: in eCommerce consumers “rent” content, access, and capabilities (such as software) whereas pre-Internet commerce offered the consumer the option to “own” (and to “maintain”) the commodity in question. Consumers have been conditioned to prefer the “push” to the “pull” model of software acquisition; they tacitly traded the burden of shopping for the convenience of instant gratification, e.g., the success of Amazon.  Even back in the late 1980’s, when I first started writing software, I often heard the expression “Users are lusers [sic],” and this was before the advent of the “internet” and the emergence the pervasive surveillance capitalism enabled by it.

Many of us are part of the generation spanning the end of the industrial era and the onset of the information era. In an information era, the notion of “ownership” for anyone other than a handful of eCommerce robber-barons is untenable and outmoded. And, to the OP’s point: I  certainly understand consumers’ concerns but I don’t see any easy way to rectify this situation for a variety of reasons—not the least being that the US government lacks the capacity and the desire to attempt to reign in this sector of the global economy. I’ll give the EU the “nod” for at least trying.

I think a good starting point is to not use Adobe Cloud for any image storage. I've always used a pair of large external hard drives.

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1 minute ago, fotografr said:

I think a good starting point is to not use Adobe Cloud for any image storage. I've always used a pair of large external hard drives.

Same here...the last version of PhotoShop on DVD still does what I need in post production.  And everything is stored on two external hard drives.  I never was comfortable storing my images on the cloud...and no way am I going to pay a monthly subscription.

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Posted (edited)

The only difference (and each person may see it as a significant difference or not) between what Adobe appears to be saying compared to others like Facebook/Instagram etc is that they want to use your images to train AI systems. 

All companies storing stuff in the cloud need to move data between servers in different jurisdictions, which means handing it on from one (Adobe) company to another. One way of making cloud data secure is to store it in far-dispersed servers. They need permission or the right to do this. This issue has been around for years, including as scare stories/phishing attacks on FB ("cut and paste this [impotent conspiracy theory disclaimer of choice] in your feed and ask others to do the same").

I also suspect that unless all your data is encrypted (Whatsapp) and only you have the key, then Adobe, Meta, X, Tiktok etc are all under pressure in different countries to keep an eye on child abuse images etc. If they are not legally obliged to already, then they will be in future. This Adobe proviso looks related to that.

None of this is to make excuses for Adobe, just putting some context out there. Cancel your subscription if you wish, especially if you can find a stand-alone app that does what you want and doesn't store images online.

 

Now going away to read what the LUF T&C say about such matters.

Edit: they are here. They cover the right to pass on data to third parties in accordance with GDPR requirements, but not (yet?) the EU Digital Services Act. Out of curiosity, not suspicion, I would be interested in hearing from @LUF Admin how the DSA affects the forum (if at all).

Edited by LocalHero1953
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1 hour ago, fotografr said:

I think a good starting point is to not use Adobe Cloud for any image storage. I've always used a pair of large external hard drives.

Excellent! I’ve bailed on Adobe products two years ago. I still use their DNG tool (but they haven’t charged for that …. yet). I started using Affinity about two years ago, and am minimally conversant with GIMP. Presently, I am looking for a good external (maybe Drobo … if I find them?) drive configuration.

Because I work mostly in film, perhaps I have fewer “needs” in the eDomain.

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The main appeal of Adobe for me is the convenience of cloud storage.   But this confirms some misgivings—the AI news from Adobe is not a surprise .

Does Capture 1 also help itself to subscribers’ work to train AI?

I dread going back to hard drives, SSDs, assembling a RAID, etc.  Ugh.

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1 hour ago, bobtodrick said:

Same here...the last version of PhotoShop on DVD still does what I need in post production.

One day you won't be able to install it. Adobe no longer support the necessary online product activation for CS4 and earlier, even if you have the DVDs. As with any agreement with Adobe, the 'perpetual' licence terms (or how they choose to interpret them) are very one-sided. We must do what they say, and they can do what they like.

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12 minutes ago, graphlex said:

The main appeal of Adobe for me is the convenience of cloud storage.   But this confirms some misgivings—the AI news from Adobe is not a surprise .

Does Capture 1 also help itself to subscribers’ work to train AI?

I dread going back to hard drives, SSDs, assembling a RAID, etc.  Ugh.

I don't think C1 does this, but I wouldn't put anything past them these days - the way they changed the support period for the 'perpetual' licence and remotely killed C1 Express installations just because they could is all very customer hostile.

You could buy online storage elsewhere - e.g., the MS Office 365 plan comes with 1TB for a reasonable monthly price even if you don't use the software included in the rental.

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12 minutes ago, graphlex said:

The main appeal of Adobe for me is the convenience of cloud storage.   But this confirms some misgivings—the AI news from Adobe is not a surprise .

Does Capture 1 also help itself to subscribers’ work to train AI?

I dread going back to hard drives, SSDs, assembling a RAID, etc.  Ugh.

One thing that worries me with cloud storage is the download speed. It takes ages to restore in case something happens. Of course as long as you stay with Adobe, you will never need to. When you would want to switch to C1P, the first hurdle is to export/import all your projects. Do not expect too much from that. With some luck, all your metadata is preserved, but all your edits on RAW files are gone, unless you export them as TIFF or high res JPEGs first.
 

2 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

One day you won't be able to install it. Adobe no longer support the necessary online product activation for CS4 and earlier, even if you have the DVDs. As with any agreement with Adobe, the 'perpetual' licence terms (or how they choose to interpret them) are very one-sided. We must do what they say, and they can do what they like.

Been there done that. If you are on Mac OS the installers for CS4 are not compatible with the latest MacOS since 5 years or more. Hence my experience with export/import. In the end I decided not to go back, and just use an old Mac system to access my archived projects when needed. 
Of course this method would not apply if you are on a Adobe subscription plan.... One more reason why I do not like subscription plans.

And, yes, 'perpetual license' with C1P is basically limited to one year of free updates. If you stay with the same OS, you can keep using this version perpetually, but if something breaks with the next OS release you are stuck, and will need to upgrade to the next 'perpetual' version 😞
Still beats a subscription plan in my case, because I am on old hardware that does not support the latest Mac OS anyway.

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30 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

One day you won't be able to install it. Adobe no longer support the necessary online product activation for CS4 and earlier, even if you have the DVDs. As with any agreement with Adobe, the 'perpetual' licence terms (or how they choose to interpret them) are very one-sided. We must do what they say, and they can do what they like.

Not to worried.  It’s loaded on a computer that only a year old and, barring issues will last me 10 years.

As I’m in my 7O’s I should be good…by the time I ‘need’ a new computer I’ll probably be more concerned about who’s bringing my pablum 😂

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Posted (edited)

I don’t store all my images in Adobe’s cloud, but I do use it for distributing images to others. Create an online collection and give others a link to see it and download from it. 

The image pages on my website are also Lightroom collections, linked with a LR extension from Format, my website host. 

I would have trouble replicating these services in a simple way from another provider without the same T&C as Adobe

Edited by LocalHero1953
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Posted (edited)

Without seeing Adobes response the question of 'rights' it's an open range. What for example would happen in the Ai universe if Adobe couldn't help in finding the source of stolen images (not those you are saying Adobe want to steal from you) which it's Ai is being used to generate? This entire discussion is based on the thought that Adobe are going to will nilly trawl through your images looking for something to sell on. What if for the time being it's a rhetorical answer to protecting you from design agencies picking up your work? If Adobe can't use their systems to see who's using certain content and are able to 'publish' the findings you aren't protected at all. And perhaps it's even more a rhetorical question for individuals who keep their noses clean, it may simply be writing something into their 'contract' with users which means Courts dealing with criminal and commercial crimes are able to demand access as they are now for 'hard copy'. Clearly with fake news abounding the use of Ai needs to come into the range of the Law and whoever is generating harmful fake images needs to be found as much a smoking gun. This requires the identification of images and passing these images and information on to the relevant lawful party whether it's Joe Blogs who's image has been stolen and doctored or a Court, no more sinister than law agencies being able to work with Ai as they can in demanding copies of texts and emails.

Edited by 250swb
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On 6/11/2024 at 8:09 PM, LocalHero1953 said:

I don’t store all my images in Adobe’s cloud, but I do use it for distributing images to others. Create an online collection and give others a link to see it and download from it. 

The image pages on my website are also Lightroom collections, linked with a LR extension from Format, my website host. 

I would have trouble replicating these services in a simple way from another provider without the same T&C as Adobe

I can see that. However, I use Nextcloud to do that and my website is a simple WordPress setup. I don't like to have large corporations watching my stuff. That's why I don't use Facebook and Instagram either.

That being said, I think Adobe's future market is corporations, large agencies, etc., which basically means that they want the little creative guy jobless through their AI taking their jobs. In short, Adobe is as evil as any other of the large tech giants, probably even worse, as they work at humanity's heart, which is creativity.

Creativity, rights, and the rest of it will be reserved for the very few at the top of the food chain, say in five years, tops. Fine artists, proper film/TV directors and cameramen, and photographers who do stuff that AI will never replicate because it's connected to an event will do fine (think of weddings, events, etc.). 

My solution is C1 and doing stuff that AI cannot do, no matter what.

 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, 250swb said:

. Clearly with fake news abounding the use of Ai needs to come into the range of the Law and whoever is generating harmful fake images needs to be found as much a smoking gun. This requires the identification of images and passing these images and information on to the relevant lawful party whether it's Joe Blogs who's image has been stolen and doctored or a Court, no more sinister than law agencies being able to work with Ai as they can in demanding copies of texts and emails.

We are clearly stumbling into uncharted territory and need laws to reign that in. But using the menace of AI becoming a societal nuclear bomb as a pretext to gain control of my creative front garden is as menacing as whatever AI can do to me on any level. Even more so, there is the danger that the (understandable) longing for perfect security will open the gates to authoritarian rule. 

I know we are all different, and many have no qualms about being ruled by a friendly power (the Chinese seem to like that), but I'm in my heart a terrorist whenever I sniff authoritarianism. Perhaps that's because I love jaywalking in my German homeland (you get fined here when doing that ;).

Edited by hansvons
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53 minutes ago, hansvons said:

We are clearly stumbling into uncharted territory and need laws to reign that in. But using the menace of AI becoming a societal nuclear bomb as a pretext to gain control of my creative front garden is as menacing as whatever AI can do to me on any level. Even more so, there is the danger that the (understandable) longing for perfect security will open the gates to authoritarian rule. 

I know we are all different, and many have no qualms about being ruled by a friendly power (the Chinese seem to like that), but I'm in my heart a terrorist whenever I sniff authoritarianism. Perhaps that's because I love jaywalking in my German homeland (you get fined here when doing that ;).

I on the other hand have no reason to think big tech are out to steal my images and if so I'll send whoever it is the bill, and it's good luck if Adobe saw something worthwhile and passed my content on to a buyer. Does anybody seriously think just using a software platform means all that data can be mined to take profit away from the originator? Consider how many companies use Adobe software (or any outside software  because the licenses won't be unique ), so a/ does anybody think Adobe are liable to trawl their work?, and b/ dose anybody think Adobe could survive if they actually did it without telling you? I've never used the Cloud for storage anyway but even so the whole question is naïve, if people ever start to be trawled for content the content will dry up, you can't keep on fishing the same people or the same content without the fish dying off or evolving teeth.  

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Today I was told that some of my photos from a recent stage production of The Producers had been posted on Instagram without credit by the play’s performing rights owner (quite a large corporate rights-owning business). Given the nature of their own business, you’d think they’d have more sense. Both the play producer and myself explained to them the error of their ways and (with my agreement) they added a credit. Given the nature of their post (just a social media update on productions of their various shows, not a more permanent use, like a website) I left it at that. 

It was a lesson that anyone can steal (perhaps ‘misappropriate’ is a better word in my case) your images unless you never let them out of the house in digital form. It doesn’t have to be a massive corporation, like Adobe. 

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