Jump to content

On the APO fence


o2mpx

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Jeff S:

I did… you just selectively deleted the important recommendation that followed the excerpted sentence… demo or rent the lens (easy in the US where the OP resides).  We don’t know how the OP works, whether he prints or pixel peeps, and how he evaluates results. Best method is to test the gear IMO. Some are capable of extracting, or even seeing or caring about, fine distinctions; others not.

The 35 APO Summicron would cost a few hundred bucks to rent for 4 days, for comparison to the Summarit he already owns.  Since the cost to trade the latter for the former would likely result in an additional $7000 or so, that seems a bargain.  And the only way to really know the differences and perceived value.  Others can’t replicate his workflow and evaluation, let alone assess other factors such as ergonomics and handling that require personal use.

Jeff

This makes perfect sense. I would clearly follow this advice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, hansvons said:

Interesting to understand a lens like the Summarit as a "starting lens". I wonder what category Voigtländer lenses are.

Being a French Canadian living in France my English is not always the best at conveying my thoughts.

The Summarit is a fantastic lens I would gladly live with for pretty much everything I shoot and need in a 35mm lens.

Voigtländer are great now, when I first dabble with Voigtländer lenses they were not at the same level they are at today and are also great lenses.

This said, on the one hand, the APO 35 is a true gem of a lens and I could definitely live with just an APO 35 without ever wanting to upgrade to a different 35, ever. 

On the other hand, I could also live with only an original last batch 216 Steel Rim. A different lens but for what I mostly shoot, street, it is even better than an APO 35 specially on film. 

Hope this clears up my initial response. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Pika898 said:

I have the apo 35 and if you are only displaying your work on smaller screens/social media I don’t think it is worth it. The lens shines when you start making prints of your images imo

If anyone uses anything other than a smartphone to make photos only to be shared on social media... they are a tad over doing it ;) ... just saying.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, patrickcolpron said:

If anyone uses anything other than a smartphone to make photos only to be shared on social media... they are a tad over doing it ;) ... just saying.  

Where else are people going to share their photos if it isn't on social media?

Or maybe don't share it at all. Take them for yourself. What does that have to do with the camera they use?

The idea that if you shoot a Leica you have to print your photos for noone is ridiculous. Should we all pay a gallery and sit there by ourselves looking at our pictures mounted on a wall? Pictures 0 people care about? Or are you saying Leica M cameras are only for professional photographers? Because only a very tiny minority of pros use Leica cameras. They use Canon or Sony. 

Or print them for what? If I print my photos every weekend what am I supposed to do with them? Put them in a drawer. And then what? The biggest i'll print them is about the size of an ipad screen. Which I have. 

About 80% or more of the photos I take i delete. I go out and take photos the whole weekend. Usually I end up erasing the SD card without backing it up. Then i go the next weekend and take more. And I delete those too. Maybe one day I take one worth saving and I save it. 

Edited by crons
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, crons said:

Where else are people going to share their photos if it isn't on social media?

Or maybe don't share it at all. Take them for yourself. What does that have to do with the camera they use?

The idea that if you shoot a Leica you have to print your photos for noone is ridiculous. Should we all pay a gallery and sit there by ourselves looking at our pictures mounted on a wall? Pictures 0 people care about? Or are you saying Leica M cameras are only for professional photographers? Because only a very tiny minority of pros use Leica cameras. They use Canon or Sony. 

Or print them for what? If I print my photos every weekend what am I supposed to do with them? Put them in a drawer. And then what? The biggest i'll print them is about the size of an ipad screen. Which I have. 

Oh wow, tell me how you really feel... :D And wow, you really are trying to put words in my mouth I never even thought about, ever. You take stuff on a very personal level without even knowing me.

Why spend so much money on a camera and a lens only to share the photos made with those expensive cameras on social media? That makes no sense to me, other than bragging rights what do you gain? Making  photos with a Leica makes them better? But then again who knows why you, me and others pay so much for a Leica, in my case it is not to strictly and only share on social media, because that would be silly.

I do print all my analog photos, without exception and some digital photos, the majority are small prints and some are larger prints because at the end of the day, social is here today but will surely be gone tomorrow. 

My prints are mostly for me, used as a learning tool, the larger, better ones are sold from time to time as fine arts prints and some are family keepsakes. 

In my opinion, anyone who doesn't have a collection of their prints in a pile for visitors, friends and family, to pick and choose from when visiting you at your home, and take away with them when they leave, are missing out of a great opportunity to share their passion for photography. But what do I know... 

I gave friends large prints of their kids, and I mean wall size prints. Why not print? Why only social? I've been shooting and sharing prints since 1978, that hasn't changed with the advent of social media. I don't know about you but I have been making photos longer than social media has been around.

The photos I make are primarily for myself and often times, shared with friends and family, and a few on social media. I have so many photos in other people's home it is kinda cool, and I have photos of them on my walls. 

Anyone can use the camera they want, Leica or any other brand, I never said they opposite, all I am saying is if you only share photos on social media, anything more than a smartphone is overkill and yet, I printed a series of 12 by 12 (inches) photos made with an iPhone 4s years ago, showed them to photographers along with a series of photos made with an M9 and a Nikon D3, no one could tell me which was made with which camera.

Anyhoo, I digressed and forgot where I digressed from, my train of thought is a runaway. Judging from your reaction, I must have touched a sensitive nerve, that was not my intention, my apologies. 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Reminds me of what HCB used to say: "Once the picture is in the box, i’m not all that interested in what happens next. Hunters, after all, aren’t cooks". I don't take myself for a hunter (nor a cook) but i never sold a single print in my life. Being technical photos, my clients would have nothing to do with such things. What they needed was not prints but files to work with. Same for my relatives i would not bother with prints while it is so easy to send them pic files or links thereto. Never went on a social media either, unless the LUF is one of them. Nothing personal of course 😎

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 6/11/2024 at 4:00 AM, o2mpx said:

Have the 50 and 135 APO, and have thoughts for a long time picking up the 35APO to replace the 35 Summarit 2.4. The 21 SEM and 90 Macro Elmar complete the kit with a M10-r. 

A second thought would always come up, given mid-aperture landscapes are 90% of what’s shot, and rarely shots are at wide open, will there be significant improvement at F8 between the 35 Summarit and the 35APO?
 

 

I would imagine that is will outperform it at F8 yes, but its not going to turn a good photo into a better one, if that makes sense.

However, APO lenses for me are a game changer for landscapes. No Chromatic aberrations, shooting F2 in dim light knowing that I have sharp cross frame images means lower ISO, and essentially better resolution as a result. I also love using smaller apertures for landscapes to accentuate any create blur of the foreground like the below.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited by JTLeica
  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 6/13/2024 at 2:37 AM, patrickcolpron said:

In my opinion, anyone who doesn't have a collection of their prints in a pile for visitors, friends and family, to pick and choose from when visiting you at your home, and take away with them when they leave, are missing out of a great opportunity to share their passion for photography. But what do I know

I gave friends large prints of their kids

In your opinion. Some just take photos for the joy of it. Even if you never share any of it. 

The idea you have to have drawers filled with little prints of photos nobody wants in order to take photos with a Leica is ridiculous. You just repeated it. Never heard of such a thing. I keep digital copies of what I like. I don't need a drawer full of little prints. If all I need is a drawer of little prints then all I need is an Instax. Why should anyone buy a Leica to get little prints? My Galaxy S24 can make wonderful little prints. 

My mom in law has a large print of her with her dog in the loving room. I took it with my iPhone. 

Edited by crons
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 6/13/2024 at 2:37 AM, patrickcolpron said:

Anyone can use the camera they want, Leica or any other brand, I never said they opposite, all I am saying is if you only share photos on social media, anything more than a smartphone is overkill

You just contradicted yourself. So basically all that post was about nothing at all. 😅

How about people buy what they want and do whatever they want with it?

On 6/13/2024 at 2:37 AM, patrickcolpron said:

Why spend so much money on a camera and a lens only to share the photos made with those expensive cameras on social media?

How about just let people do whatever they want?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, crons said:

In your opinion. Some just take photos for the joy of it. Even if you never share any of it. 

The idea you have to have drawers filled with little prints of photos nobody wants in order to take photos with a Leica is ridiculous. You just repeated it. Never heard of such a thing. I keep digital copies of what I like. I don't need a drawer full of little prints. If all I need is a drawer of little prints then all I need is an Instax. Why should anyone buy a Leica to get little prints? My Galaxy S24 can make wonderful little prints. 

Seems like you have a problem with me, you should probably call me to sort it, it would be more efficient to discuss it over a quick phone call.

If you don't have my phone number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me.

.... now where is that ignore button? 

Edited by patrickcolpron
Oh my... that "Ignored Users" function is wonderful. I didn't know before today.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, patrickcolpron said:

Seems like you have a problem with me, you should probably call me to sort it, it would be more efficient to discuss it over a quick phone call.

If you don't have my phone number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me.

.... now where is that ignore button? 

No I have an issue with the idea that anyone who buys a camera has to have a pile of little prints around the house. Craziest thing I've ever heard. If I get a film camera eventually I'll probably just have negatives in a drawer and just make them into digital files.

And no. Taking photos with a Leica M isnt the same as taking a photo with a phone. First i wouldnt get the same photo since i can't compose properly with a phone. 

Also with a phone you have no real control over aperture or shutter speed. It's very difficult to translate your idea into a photograph. 

It's not about where you share the photo or print the photo is how you took it. The experience of taking it. 

Where you choose to put those photos afterwards, whether in a drawer or on Instagram, is irrelevant. 

Edited by crons
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, crons said:

No I have an issue ...

Oh, we almost agree on that one :) 

Had you said "I have issues" would have been more accurate, but what do I know?

Replying to an anonymous handle on an online forum, to a person who seems to be looking for attention is not constructive to this topic.

Now before you defend yourself, and say you are not "looking for attention", 92 posts in 11 days on your part versus,  147 posts in what... 6 years from me, I think I will correctly infer, you are looking for attention.

No need to reply, I will not see it. You sir, are the only person on my "Ignored Users" list, congratulations.

And lastly, thank you for making me figure out how that "Ignored Users" function works, good job. 

Edited by patrickcolpron
*Doh! sir not sire ... quoi que, ah non, ça ne vaut pas la peine.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, patrickcolpron said:

Oh, we almost agree on that one :) 

Had you said "I have issues" would have been more accurate, but what do I know?

Replying to an anonymous handle on an online forum, to a person who seems to be looking for attention is not constructive to this topic.

Now before you defend yourself, and say you are not "looking for attention", 92 posts in 11 days on your part versus,  147 posts in what... 6 years from me, I think I will correctly infer, you are looking for attention.

No need to reply, I will not see it. You sir, are the only person on my "Ignored Users" list, congratulations.

And lastly, thank you for making me figure out how that "Ignored Users" function works, good job. 

You have no argument because you know you've contradicted yourself and what you've said is crazy. And that's that. 

On 6/13/2024 at 3:09 AM, lct said:

Reminds me of what HCB used to say: "Once the picture is in the box, i’m not all that interested in what happens next. Hunters, after all, aren’t cooks". I don't take myself for a hunter (nor a cook) but i never sold a single print in my life. Being technical photos, my clients would have nothing to do with such things. What they needed was not prints but files to work with. Same for my relatives i would not bother with prints while it is so easy to send them pic files or links thereto. Never went on a social media either, unless the LUF is one of them. Nothing personal of course 😎

Yes. And it's more irrelevant today. If he was taking photos today they would be in a hard drive and backed up to the cloud instead. It's about the process not the prints in the box. 

Insinuating taking photos on a Leica M is the same as a Phone if you're just posting them online is the craziest thing ive ever heard. 

Edited by crons
Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, JTLeica said:

I would imagine that is will outperform it at F8 yes, but its not going to turn a good photo into a better one, if that makes sense.

However, APO lenses for me are a game changer for landscapes. No Chromatic aberrations, shooting F2 in dim light knowing that I have sharp cross frame images means lower ISO, and essentially better resolution as a result. I also love using smaller apertures for landscapes to accentuate any create blur of the foreground like the below.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

This is what I think. APO lenses really are a niche special use sort of lens. For every day normal use a modern ASPH lens really is all you need. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 6/12/2024 at 9:37 PM, patrickcolpron said:

I do print all my analog photos, without exception and some digital photos, the majority are small prints and some are larger prints because at the end of the day, social is here today but will surely be gone tomorrow. 

My prints are mostly for me, used as a learning tool, the larger, better ones are sold from time to time as fine arts prints and some are family keepsakes. 

In my opinion, anyone who doesn't have a collection of their prints in a pile for visitors, friends and family, to pick and choose from when visiting you at your home, and take away with them when they leave, are missing out of a great opportunity to share their passion for photography

I can very much relate to that. I know that the Leica game isn't cheap, and printing isn't cheap either. But I prefer a proper printer to the next fifty in my collection. I print a lot, stick the prints on my large whiteboard, and learn a lot. Some of the images go to an exhibition; others hang in some friends' houses. Many are in a drawer. Some are really large (100x70), and some are small. Photos love to be printed.

Paper, BTW, is as interesting as lenses. Today, I ordered a roll of PhotoRag Baryta. Yummy.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, hansvons said:

I can very much relate to that. I know that the Leica game isn't cheap, and printing isn't cheap either. But I prefer a proper printer to the next fifty in my collection. I print a lot, stick the prints on my large whiteboard, and learn a lot. Some of the images go to an exhibition; others hang in some friends' houses. Many are in a drawer. Some are really large (100x70), and some are small. Photos love to be printed.

Paper, BTW, is as interesting as lenses. Today, I ordered a roll of PhotoRag Baryta. Yummy.

 

If I had the space and the money for printing I would do it and hang at my place. I just don't have the space for it. 

I also have no visitors so prints would be just collecting dust. 

Early on I used to and I have a few shots in a folder in a drawer but I stopped. Completely useless endeavor and to get them printed correctly it would cost a lot. Again for no reason. 

I do have a plan to print a small Zine or make it into a book I'm not sure, and give it to a temple chief where i always take photos. Thats another problem to find a place that can do that. Other than that I see no point in sticking my photos in a drawer. 

Maybe when I am very old and no longer taking photos my hobby would be to print them, but for now I just take them. 

I cant think of one photographer I admire that ever sat around looking at his prints. They just took photos for years. Eventually yes at the end of their careers they curated them and made books. Maybe someone like Klein and those who did work for magazines. 

Speaking of large prints. Someone gifted me one of my own photos. He printed it huge and framed it and I don't know what to do with it. It has been behind my couch for a couple of years now collecting dust. 

I personally prefer large prints. I have maybe 5 photos that I would love to print large and professionally. Problem is i can't put them anywhere. 

Edited by crons
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, crons said:

I cant think of one photographer I admire that ever sat around looking at his prints. They just took photos for years. Eventually yes at the end of their careers they curated them and made books. Maybe someone like Klein and those who did work for magazines. 

 

Guess you don’t spend much time at museums, art galleries, art fairs, book dealers, etc.  The history of photography is filled with photographers who made, or had a professional printer make, prints for exhibition and sale throughout their careers.  I have many of these vintage (and some contemporary) prints on my walls.  Many of these photographers also retained original prints during their lifetime (and hung them on their walls just as painters did), eventually donating their collections.
 

Some of these wonderful photographers also produced books during their working years, and the best of those books were carefully curated and overseen by the photographer, and beautifully printed, during his/her active years. I have bookshelves full of these first editions, some spanning decades of the photographer’s work, to demonstrate the point.

I admire dozens of these photographers. They were too busy to sit around gazing, but they most definitely believed that their work was incomplete without superb prints and books. Even HCB, despite his comment, worked with printers and bookmakers to ensure quality output.  He wasn’t a recluse, with negatives hiding in storage, like Vivian Maier.

Jeff

 

Edited by Jeff S
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Even HCB, despite his comment, worked with printers and bookmakers to ensure quality output.  He wasn’t a recluse, with negatives hiding in storage, like Vivian Maier.

He did. And he was very particular about his prints. My point is when he was taking photos he would send dozens and hundreds of rolls off in the mail and keep taking photos. Of course he published books. That was his living. 

Curating and printing isn't taking photos. I'm talking about taking them. 

I would like to see some of my photos printed nicely, but the time I have for this hobby is taking them not printing them. Maybe at some point I'll print some. 

But this whole thing is really getting away from the original point that if you don't print and only put photos online just take photos with your phone. This is crazy as taking photos with a phone is not like taking photos with a real camera. 

I have no problems with people printing their photos every day and putting them in a drawer. Who cares. . 

Edited by crons
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...