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Focus calibration mystery


Svet

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I have situation which seems really strange. Let me explain: various lenses,  2xVoigt APO, Summicron 50, Summilux 35 ASPH I and Summilux 50 ASPH I all focus correctly on M240 and also on M10-P. 

On M11 all of them are ok except the Summilux 50 ASPH I which even at final infinity position actually doesn't reach real focus at infinity. Same for shorter distances - there is visible difference between live view and rangefinder. Looks like the lens needs calibration. Sent it to Leica, received it back but nothing changed. And indeed the same lens is ok on two other bodies.

Maybe then it is M11 problem? But focus is spot-on with all other lenses? How this is even possible??

 

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Posted (edited)

I had a similar problem with my Voigtlander lenses (Nokton 35/1.2 III, Nokton 50/1.2). They worked perfectly on the M10-R (and M240 before), after upgrading (what a mistake!) to the M11-P, none of them worked properly. Both lenses were exchanged for new lenses as part of the claim, the M11-P was calibrated at Wetzlar, but no change. I think there must be something different in the RF mechanism compared to previous models.

Edited by jhonzatkl
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I was thinking about change in the RF mechanism too ... but can't believe that nobody has Summilux 35 FLE and Summilux 50 ASPH I both working on M11. 

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Question: Does your 50mm Summilux reach real focus at infity on the M240 and/or M10-P?
I mean: are the pictures sharp at infity setting and F 1.4? You need a subject at 1 km / 1 mile distance to make the judgement.
When your lens is not sharp at infinity it defenitely needs calibration, because the optical unit is not positioned at the right distance from the sensor.
Of course this test is more critical the more your enlarge your picture.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Maarten said:

Question: Does your 50mm Summilux reach real focus at infity on the M240 and/or M10-P?
I mean: are the pictures sharp at infity setting and F 1.4? You need a subject at 1 km / 1 mile distance to make the judgement.
When your lens is not sharp at infinity it defenitely needs calibration, because the optical unit is not positioned at the right distance from the sensor.
Of course this test is more critical the more your enlarge your picture.

Yes, it is perfect on all distances on 240 and also on M10-P even wide open. The problem is only on M11 and only with this lens ... go figure.

Edited by Svet
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Lens and camera are calibrated both to their own standard. Each calibration has a certain plus and minus: nothing is perfect.
When your M11 and your Summilux 50mm are correctly calibrated, I suspect one is at the plus side and one on the minus side of the calibration.
Leica Wetzlar will tell you both are in spec, however the combination is not. In that case only sending in camera plus lens will help to resolve the issue.

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2 hours ago, Svet said:

[...] can't believe that nobody has Summilux 35 FLE and Summilux 50 ASPH I both working on M11 [...]

I do. No problem so far. I cannot help in your case but to follow @Maarten's advice above.

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Do not be neurotic about rangefinder calibrations!
Does the camera take good pictures? If yes, take it as is and learn to accept that your camera is a mix of mechanics from the ‘50 and present day electronics.

None of the many M cameras I had was 100% calibrated with all lenses, but all of them took beautiful pictures.

I switched to SL and Q just because, ageing, mi sight worsened, but I still love the M and it’s quirks.
You have a fantastic camera. Enjoy shooting and forget about minor problems.

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I have the same problems with my 5 leica lenses and 3 LLL lenses on M10-R and M11 bodies.

I could never figure it out why and asking people here doesn't help either.

I have learned to accept it as @Fgcm suggested. At the end it's just one lens with one camera body with focusing slightly off, I have more important things to do in my life.

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17 hours ago, Maarten said:

Lens and camera are calibrated both to their own standard. Each calibration has a certain plus and minus: nothing is perfect.
When your M11 and your Summilux 50mm are correctly calibrated, I suspect one is at the plus side and one on the minus side of the calibration.
Leica Wetzlar will tell you both are in spec, however the combination is not. In that case only sending in camera plus lens will help to resolve the issue.

This is the only solution, that is to send the camera and lens back to Leica, AGAIN. Maybe you’ll get lucky and they’ll do the adjustment correctly the second time. Since you’ve already had them attempt the adjustment with no success, you might consider an independent Leica technician. Alternatively, sell/trade your 50 Lux and try another copy that might be closer to the tolerance your M11 requires.

Good luck!

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Sure, we can send the body and lens to a service for adjustment and I believe the service can adjust it. But the question for me is, is it guaranteed that such an adjustment on one particular lens cannot have a negative effect on other lenses? That is, maybe the one I selected will start working properly, but the problem will appear with other lenses?

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21 hours ago, jhonzatkl said:

is it guaranteed that such an adjustment on one particular lens cannot have a negative effect on other lenses?

There is no guarantee but Leica have beeen doing this for more than half a century. As long as you don't ask them to work on non-Leica lenses, it is their job.

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On 6/7/2024 at 1:52 AM, Svet said:

I have situation which seems really strange. Let me explain: various lenses,  2xVoigt APO, Summicron 50, Summilux 35 ASPH I and Summilux 50 ASPH I all focus correctly on M240 and also on M10-P. 

On M11 all of them are ok except the Summilux 50 ASPH I which even at final infinity position actually doesn't reach real focus at infinity. Same for shorter distances - there is visible difference between live view and rangefinder. Looks like the lens needs calibration. Sent it to Leica, received it back but nothing changed. And indeed the same lens is ok on two other bodies.

Maybe then it is M11 problem? But focus is spot-on with all other lenses? How this is even possible??

 

I had this same issues looking through view finder but when I actually take shots, my target actually is focused
So I dont bother looking through VF when Im using zone focus
still learnign here, got my m11 and lux 50 & 35 

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On 6/7/2024 at 3:27 PM, jhonzatkl said:

They worked perfectly on the M10-R (and M240 before), after upgrading (what a mistake!) to the M11-P

Was the upgrade worth it in your opinion?

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On 6/8/2024 at 7:08 AM, jhonzatkl said:

Sure, we can send the body and lens to a service for adjustment and I believe the service can adjust it. But the question for me is, is it guaranteed that such an adjustment on one particular lens cannot have a negative effect on other lenses? That is, maybe the one I selected will start working properly, but the problem will appear with other lenses?

That is why you must send the while system in. All lenses and body. It is not unusual to do so. Use a trusted third party technician. The wait at Leica is too long. 

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2 hours ago, jhonzatkl said:

This is of course very subjective. But if I were to decide again, I would not upgrade from M10-R to M11(-P).

I had a loaner m11 for couple of days. I did not buy the M11. In my opinion, the m11 overstretched the design envelope. The best M is the M10R

my dream M12 is a M10R with aluminum body to be as light as the black m11, with a new circa 40 mpixel backlit sensor, with the old metering on the curtains and, most important, with the old shutter. The new shutter of the m11 works like the one on the sl2. It’s open for metering, than it closes and open again to take the photo. This shakes the camera.

the M concept is simplicity. The m11 is not simple. 

 

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Unfortunately, Jaap is correct about this. The only way to really ensure that everything works properly together is to have them all calibrated together. I don't think everyone should go out and do this, because if things are mostly in tolerance, you should be fine. But if you plan on using the camera wide open a lot and notice that one or two lenses are off and others are fine, probably the only solution is to send them all in. This is a problem that gets worse with every subsequent generation of M as the resolution jumps higher and higher. The tolerance becomes harder to achieve, and the precision of the mechanical components must be higher and higher. We are likely going to reach the ceiling very soon, if we have not already. Sending the whole system in is not something that is conducive to GAS and people buying tons of lenses and bodies and swapping them out all the time. But if you are someone who buys one body and two or three lenses and stick to them for a long time, it is probably worth doing.

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33 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

This is a problem that gets worse with every subsequent generation of M as the resolution jumps higher and higher.

One of the unfortunate side effects of this pixel marketing race...

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On 6/7/2024 at 2:46 AM, Maarten said:

Lens and camera are calibrated both to their own standard. Each calibration has a certain plus and minus: nothing is perfect.
When your M11 and your Summilux 50mm are correctly calibrated, I suspect one is at the plus side and one on the minus side of the calibration.
Leica Wetzlar will tell you both are in spec, however the combination is not. In that case only sending in camera plus lens will help to resolve the issue.

I never understood why a focus calibration has to go back to Leica; why can't we calibrate it ourselves?  Is there a video showing how?

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