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storing new M10 battery


brickftl

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I bought a new one from B&H just to keep as a spare. I've got two others that are fine, and just got this one in case they become unavailable in the future.

Can I just store it in the unopened box, or do I need to check to see if it has any charge and then keep it hovering in the 50% range?

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2 hours ago, brickftl said:

I bought a new one from B&H just to keep as a spare. I've got two others that are fine, and just got this one in case they become unavailable in the future.

Can I just store it in the unopened box, or do I need to check to see if it has any charge and then keep it hovering in the 50% range?

If you buy a battery you have to use it. It's now part of your rotation. 

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if a battery can't be kept in an unopened box after I buy it, then doesn't the same thing apply to unopened boxes that sit on a retailer's shelf? Seems the gist of everyone's comments is that batteries whether opened/used or not all have a shelf life. So why don't batteries come with a "best if used by" date?

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I would keep it in rotation, of some kind. Whether it gets equal usage, or works on a modified schedule, the main thing is to REMEMBER it, and never let it fully self-discharge. I would not leave it in a charger, continuously connected to power, for long periods of time.

In general, it actually takes several usage-and-recharge cycles to enable lithium-ion batteries to reach their full potential. Whether or not this is specifically true for Leica batteries, I cannot say, with certainly, but, it has seemed to be true, with my earlier M10 betteries.

I am not an expert, but, I do care for, and feed, several very old digital cameras. 2024 is my year to add several, each, BP-SCL2 and BP-SCL5 Leica batteries, for my M Type 246 and M10 cameras, a project which will cost me well over $1K US. Lenses and other accessories can wait until another time.

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It is possible not to use it. But you have to take them out of the box and charge them once in a while. I would say once a month or so. They will discharge themselves. 

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On 6/4/2024 at 3:40 AM, brickftl said:

if a battery can't be kept in an unopened box after I buy it, then doesn't the same thing apply to unopened boxes that sit on a retailer's shelf? Seems the gist of everyone's comments is that batteries whether opened/used or not all have a shelf life. So why don't batteries come with a "best if used by" date?

Batteries will initially be charged at the factory. Then they will slowly drain while in storage. However, it is not good for batteries to be kept completely empty for a long period of time - the optimal long term storage charge level is actually about 50%. You can of course not influence how long a particular battery is kept in a warehouse/shop before you purchases it. But after that it is good to initially check the charge level (if any) and then charge it fully. A brand new battery will not reach is full capacity until after a few charge cycles, so I would recommend using it normally for at least a few cycles. Then, if you want to put it aside as a spare, store it partially charged and recharge regularly.

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I bought a brand new M10 battery and, stupidly, kept it for several years boxed as a spare.  When I eventually opened it, it was dead, and could not be resuscitated.

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4 minutes ago, M9reno said:

I bought a brand new M10 battery and, stupidly, kept it for several years boxed as a spare.  When I eventually opened it, it was dead, and could not be resuscitated.

I think I can show you how to resuscitate that battery.

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5 hours ago, jdlaing said:

I think I can show you how to resuscitate that battery.

That would be great, thanks.  But I have to check whether I threw it away.  I tried leaving it to charge several times overnight: no success.  I tried bagging and freezing, thawing, and charging: nothing.

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2 minutes ago, M9reno said:

That would be great, thanks.  But I have to check whether I threw it away.  I tried leaving it to charge several times overnight: no success.  I tried bagging and freezing, thawing, and charging: nothing.

I’m sending you a PM. 

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9 hours ago, jdlaing said:

I think I can show you how to resuscitate that battery.

Does it involve resetting the BMS inside the battery pack?  

 

I've been curiously examining the plastic battery case looking to cleanly dismantle one, without damaging the case.

have you found a way?

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37 minutes ago, dugby said:

Does it involve resetting the BMS inside the battery pack?  

 

I've been curiously examining the plastic battery case looking to cleanly dismantle one, without damaging the case.

have you found a way?

No sir. I have not.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/8/2024 at 3:59 AM, M9reno said:

That would be great, thanks.  But I have to check whether I threw it away.  I tried leaving it to charge several times overnight: no success.  I tried bagging and freezing, thawing, and charging: nothing.

Even if you manage to charge it the cells inside the battery may have deteriorated to the point it lost its ability to hold a charge forever. 

I'll let ChatGPT answer 

If a lithium-ion (Li-ion) camera battery is purchased new and left inside the package without being charged for a few years, several things can happen:

 

1. **Self-Discharge**: Li-ion batteries slowly lose their charge over time even when not in use. The rate of self-discharge is relatively low, around 2-3% per month, but after a few years, the battery may become fully discharged.

 

2. **Capacity Loss**: Li-ion batteries degrade over time regardless of use. This means the battery's ability to hold a charge will diminish. This degradation is influenced by factors such as the storage temperature and the initial charge level. Storing the battery in a cool, dry place can mitigate some of this degradation.

 

3. **Internal Chemical Reactions**: Even when not in use, internal chemical reactions continue at a slow rate, leading to the formation of a passivation layer. This can increase the internal resistance of the battery, reducing its overall performance and lifespan.

 

4. **Potential for Deep Discharge**: If the battery self-discharges to a very low level (deep discharge), it can be permanently damaged. Many Li-ion batteries have built-in protection circuits to prevent deep discharge, but these circuits themselves consume a small amount of power, contributing to the self-discharge.

 

5. **Safety Concerns**: While rare, storing Li-ion batteries for an extended period can sometimes lead to safety issues, especially if the battery was not manufactured to high standards or if it was stored in poor conditions (e.g., high heat or humidity).

 

To maximize the lifespan and performance of a Li-ion battery, it's generally recommended to store it at around 40-60% charge in a cool, dry place. After a few years, the battery may still work but likely with reduced capacity and performance. It may be necessary to cycle the battery a few times (charging and discharging) to restore some of its capacity, although full restoration is unlikely.

Edited by crons
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On 6/3/2024 at 9:13 PM, brickftl said:

Can I just store it in the unopened box, or do I need to check to see if it has any charge and then keep it hovering in the 50% range?

You need to use it, I have 14 batteries for my M10 cameras, I use them in rotation. (It's a headache but will keep them working longer than simply storing them and checking their levels every so often

 

On 6/3/2024 at 9:26 PM, charlesphoto99 said:

Best to put it into rotation with the others. 

Correct  

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The way I deal with mine is I use one and charge it. But then after a couple of weeks I put both in the charger (even though I didn't use the other one) and then I jumble them up in my hands so I don't know which is which and I stick whichever one at random in my camera. That way I use both. I usually get through a morning shoot with 1 battery with 50% to spare. 

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On 6/7/2024 at 11:36 PM, jdlaing said:

I think I can show you how to resuscitate that battery.

Is it alright if you could PM me as well? I have a brand new battery that will not take a charge. 

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