unknown mirror-box for LTM-Leica

[romanus53]

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Recently I've got a mirror box for Leica unknown to me. I had already asked in the german branch of this forum https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/48991-nicht-immer-nur-kaviar/page/472/#comment-5305377 #9428 and got some helpful response. I would like to hear more about and wanted to show more pictures of this.

 

 

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Edited May 30 by romanus53
typo's, what else :-(

[romanus53]

The finish is a wrinkeld lacquer, parts look to be casted and screwed together, 0-mark on the lens ring like pre-war Leicas, length overall 65 mm.

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The mirror is spring-loaded and moved into position by turning the big knob, the small button can be pushed to release the mirror and takes a cable release for this too.

Edited May 30 by romanus53

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[romanus53]

On th bottom is a tripod-mount 1/4'', apart form the 0 no other marks or maker's signs. The finder can be rotated to one side for 45 deg., contains a glas-prism and shows reversed and upside-down.

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Edited May 30 by romanus53

[dg4mgr]

Interesting find! The PLOOT was on the market since 1938 and had a length of 62.5 mm. So why should someone built such a mirror box and be 2.5 mm off and thus need special lenses? Wouldn't this mirror box make sense if it was built before the PLOOT was available? Did you get a tailored lens with it?

[zeitz]

48 minutes ago, dg4mgr said:

Interesting find! The PLOOT was on the market since 1938 and had a length of 62.5 mm. So why should someone built such a mirror box and be 2.5 mm off and thus need special lenses? Wouldn't this mirror box make sense if it was built before the PLOOT was available? Did you get a tailored lens with it?

A minor nit-pic, PLOOT was introduced in 1935.  This was just after the Astro-Berlin Identoscope and just before the Zeiss Icon Flektoscope.  After WWII there were many reflex housings launched, particularly by third party suppliers.  Kilfitt and Novoflex are examples.  Kilfitt's first reflex housings were 64.5mm in length to allow common use of their KI series lenses on their reflex housings for Leica and Contax.  Their second reflex housings were 50mm in length.  Many other of these reflex housings for Leica used lengths other than 62.5mm, some more and some less.

[romanus53]

vor einer Stunde schrieb dg4mgr:

Interesting find! The PLOOT was on the market since 1938 and had a length of 62.5 mm. So why should someone built such a mirror box and be 2.5 mm off and thus need special lenses? Wouldn't this mirror box make sense if it was built before the PLOOT was available? Did you get a tailored lens with it?

actually I got no lnes with this, juat measured more precisly and the length is even 66.4 mm, pretty long and I do not know any lens to be adapted to focuse to infinity. And I do not know any bellows for close-up work with ltm before end of WWII.

[luigi bertolotti]

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The fact that the mirror + prism combination results in an image both reversed and upside down makes me think that the device was not made by a 3rd part provider of long focals; such a view can be acceptable for lab or repro usage... or for astrophotography... even if the 45° finder (and the tripod attachment on the base) suggests an usage with camera in normal "view" position.

Edited May 30 by luigi bertolotti

[zeitz]

2 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said:

The fact that the mirror + prism combination results in an image both reversed and upside down makes me think that the device was not made by a 3rd part provider of long focals

Attached is a photo of Hans Hermann with an Astro-Berlin Identoscope and an Astro-Berlin 400mm f5 lens.  The finder is the 5x finder that gives an upside-down and latterly reversed image.  You have to admire anyone who could handle this setup.  Astro eventually made a 4x finder (date?) that gives correct orientation viewing and a 45 degree finder.  Astro never made a bellows or a close-up lens for the Identoscope.

PLOOT, with either POOIM or PAMOO, had incorrect viewing, although I believe RIFLE had correct viewing.  We didn't get correct viewing, or a bellows, on a Visoflex until PEGOO in 1951.

Zeiss' Flektoscope (Zeiss Ikon Dresden and then Carl Zeiss Jena) never had correct viewing in any of its versions.  Zeiss Ikon Dresden even began to introduce the first version of the Panflex with a lens designed to close-up work (interrupted by the war), but it had incorrect viewing too.  Contax didn't get correct viewing until the Carl Zeiss Jena Flektometer, but no bellows or close-up lens, which I also believe was 1951.  And Zeiss Stuttgart's Panflex also had correct viewing and a lens suited for close-up work, along with a bellows.

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[luigi bertolotti]

5 minutes ago, zeitz said:

Attached is a photo of Hans Hermann with an Astro-Berlin Identoscope and an Astro-Berlin 400mm f5 lens.  The finder is the 5x finder that gives an upside-down and latterly reversed image.  You have to admire anyone who could handle this setup.  

 

Really ! Do you know which event was he covering ? Sport ? 

[zeitz]

1 hour ago, luigi bertolotti said:

Do you know which event was he covering ?

Unfortunately I have no further information.  I Xeroxed this page from Photo Magazin, Oct 1955, pg 75.  The title of the page is "Photographen um die Grossen Vier - Aufnahmen "Am Rande" von Jean Mohr und Hanns Hubmann".  There were other photos on the page, but they are unrelated.  (I spelled Hanns and Hubmann wrong in my posting #8 above.)

[romanus53]

SCNOO and Identoskop is an interesting combination, the mirror of the Identoskop has to be operated manualy and additionaly to the camera.

[zeitz]

In the photo we see the left arm focusing the lens using the big wheel and the right hand ready to pull the trigger that is connected by a cable release to the arm on the reflex housing, which would then release the shutter.  A third hand is needed to work the SCNOO.

The case could be made that the reflex housing is not an Identoscope.  The bottom of the reflex housing is curved, not flat like on an Identoscope.  The body actually looks more like the reflex housing with Astro-Berlin lens that I posted on the German side of the Forum.  The projection on the reflex housing in front of the cable release is odd.  Additionally the eyecup seems to be rectangular, rather than round.   At least we recognize the camera and SCNOO as being Leica.

[dubois pierre]

We look for the same brand of use on that Romanus53 and found it on the internet.

   https://fk-secondhand.com/en/shop/spiegelkasten-m39/

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[romanus53]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb dubois pierre:

We look for the same brand of use on that Romanus53 and found it on the internet.

   https://fk-secondhand.com/en/shop/spiegelkasten-m39/

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at that price I couldn't resist 😉 

[jc_braconi]

I liked the front bipod