Should I get Leica MP or M11-P or 35mm Summilux FLE II or 35mm APO?

[lincoln_m]

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I would highly recommend the 35 Summilux FLE especially on the M10. At F5.6 it has astounding resolution. The other day I went to my local 5500 year old Neolithic site for a sunny walk taking photos of the stones and trees etc. when I put the shots into Lightroom I saw many black dots. Is that my dirty display of something on the DNG. I zoomed in to 200% and realised they were flies. I could even see their wings. But they must have been 5m away because the shot was of a path and distant trees so dof was probably 5-inf. usually little black dots are actually birds flying over a mile or so away (1-2km). The 35 FLE with the M10 seems a perfect combination.

if one went for the Apo Summicron 35 you’d probably need the M11 too, which becomes a £16K kit , and your technique would need to be top notch to take advantage of the extreme resolution. I’ve wondered about M11+35Apo as the next step up but wouldn’t feel comfortable walking around with such expensive kit.

if you get the 35FLE used you might have enough left to also get the MP used and trade in your M6.

Good luck whatever you choose.

 

[Krakozyabr]

Considering your current gear, to be honest I'd look at it the other way around:

 

On 5/6/2024 at 9:37 PM, Al Brown said:

- You do not need a new film camera as you said.
- You already have a M10. And sell the GFX, it is depreciating rapidly.
- You have many 35mm lenses as you said.
- You really do not need another 35mm, not even APO.

These are very reasonable comments to start with 👆
You have everything you need, so it's worth to go 3 routes in my opinion:

1. Get something that you'll use
2. Upgrade what you have
3. Get something for collection that you will use enjoying the process

So:

1. Get yourself a 75 APO which you will use at some point. 75 APO is just a joy to use and you'll definitely "add" to your photographs, just try it once. 
To couple that, since some funds will remain after APO 75 - I'd go for Steel Rim 35mm Summilux. Yes you have a lot of 35mm, yes you don't need another one, but at 1.4 Steel Rim is something special in terms of its character and usability
If you're lucky and still have some funds - search for Summicron 40mm, which is also a very special thing for collection and not that crazy expensive

2. Switch M6 to MP, 50 Cron v4 to 50 APO, switch 2 of 35mm to one 35 APO or Lux FLE II and look what you use less - just get rid of things that are not constantly in rotation.

3. A whole lot of options are possible, just a few to mention:
    - search for nice condition fully manual M3DS with older 35mm with Goggles. It's just pure class combo
    - look for some vintage lenses that have value and character, they have good value retention on top of other characteristics.

To be honest you already have everything necessary and all other options are just upgrades. Personally, I'd just go all in with upgrading my Leica lenses to pair with M6 and M10 since you have some supporting gear from other brands and switch M6 to MP that will age beautifully with usage

[jaapv]

I would put the money towards a photo trip of a lifetime. 

[harmen]

I would say ‘yes’ to all.  None are needed.  None have an ROI similar to your current gear.  All are great ways of marking an occasion and adding sparkle to your life.

The black paint MP is a real joy to hold.  The better viewfinder also makes it a tad better in use than the (original) M6.  If a film M is what you use the most, it’s wonderful to have a tool in hand that is just so superb.

The two lenses are superb and there is something to say for owning at least one ‘ultimate’ Leica lens.  For some it’s the Noctilux, for others the 28 Summilux, or it could be one of these.

The M11 might not be something to keep forever, so the big question is what difference it will make.  For me, coming from a M(240), I found that I could finally appreciate digital photos as much as film.  You’d have to try before you buy.

(My own recent look for something new led me to the 35 APO by way of the 907x & 100c… I chose the lens in order to have something that has medium format qualities and a wonderful smooth transition to out of focus.  I had hoped the Hasselblad could provide a Rolleicord like experience, but the glaring digital display and the size put me off.  I don’t have an old body to use it as a back with.)

[BWColor]

Money in search of a product.  I think this is a common thing amongst Leica owners.   For me, I spend money on my hobbies because it gets me excited about life.  Try something new, like a Monochrom, or a great printer, or whatever item in your lists gets you up at night thinking of how to use it.  Nobody can tell you what to get, but many of us can relate to the rational employed to get something when you really don’t need anything.  So, this is really more of a support group.  Unfortunately, it is also an enabling group.  So, enjoy whatever you decide to buy.  I’m looking at a large printer, but I think my wife would literally kill me..but great prints are a must vs. images sitting on a computer drive..  Buying extra ‘M’ bodies, or upgrading my A7Riv is easy.. the new looks like the old, but a two to three hundred pound printer, just might get noticed.

[Pika898]

I have the M11-P and the APO summicron 35 as my one lens one camera set up and it has been a blast to use. 

I previously had the M10 and a bunch of other cv/leica lenses including the 35 fle but got tired quickly of deciding what lens to bring out with me.  

My rationale for going with this combination is to simplify my kit to worry less about gear and focus on photography. I had required specific features as I use my M mostly as a travel camera. 

- Versatile kit (i wouldn’t need f1.4 with the m11)

- USB-C charging 

- Long battery life

- Small compact lens

- Close focus capability  

- Ability to quickly import/edit in Lr on my iPad or phone. 

The APO summicron 35/M11-P combo is indeed excessive but it’s the only combination from Leica that fits all my requirements and seems to end all GAS at least for me.

 

Edited May 31, 2024 by Pika898

[250swb]

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@KenLW If you don't know wait six months and then whatever first comes into your mind (if you are still interested in the question) that will be the answer. It needs to percolate and resolve itself for the photographs you want to make, not ask strangers how to spend your money 

[spydrxx]

If you need somebody else to tell you how to spend your cash you are in serious need of a different kind of help. I wouldn't rely on others' guesstimates of what works best for you, only you can do that. If this is a GAS attack, best to wait until it passes so you can make an informed and well thought out decision. Lots of good answers, but none really hone in on YOUR preferences, needs or what works best for what you shoot. Hopefully this isn't an "influencers version of a You Tube website craving viewws for cash.😄

' 

[BjarniM]

The Leica MP.

End of discussion, period!

I just have to add that I recieved a factory new MP two weeks ago, and it indeed is the most gorgous Leica I have had over the years. And there’s something special about owning a Leica film camera from factory new.

Besides that, the black MP is THE most sexy camera ever built.

For me, the biggest advantage since going back to film (I bought the M6 2022 last year also) is the whole proces with shooting film. It truly has given me the true joy of photographing again, and I mean that deep feeling of joy which I wasn’t aware of that I have missed the last 12 years since I bought my first digital Leica.

Edited June 2, 2024 by BjarniM

[KenLW]

On 5/24/2024 at 2:15 AM, lincoln_m said:

I would highly recommend the 35 Summilux FLE especially on the M10. At F5.6 it has astounding resolution. The other day I went to my local 5500 year old Neolithic site for a sunny walk taking photos of the stones and trees etc. when I put the shots into Lightroom I saw many black dots. Is that my dirty display of something on the DNG. I zoomed in to 200% and realised they were flies. I could even see their wings. But they must have been 5m away because the shot was of a path and distant trees so dof was probably 5-inf. usually little black dots are actually birds flying over a mile or so away (1-2km). The 35 FLE with the M10 seems a perfect combination.

if one went for the Apo Summicron 35 you’d probably need the M11 too, which becomes a £16K kit , and your technique would need to be top notch to take advantage of the extreme resolution. I’ve wondered about M11+35Apo as the next step up but wouldn’t feel comfortable walking around with such expensive kit.

if you get the 35FLE used you might have enough left to also get the MP used and trade in your M6.

Good luck whatever you choose.

 

Thanks for the suggestions! I got the MP in the end so APO is not an option anymore. I will look out for a 35 summliux FLE in good condition. I can always sell the FLE I if I get the M11 later. I don't want to trade in my M6 yet because it was my first M film camera with some nostalgic values.  

[KenLW]

On 5/24/2024 at 6:26 AM, Krakozyabr said:

Considering your current gear, to be honest I'd look at it the other way around:

 

These are very reasonable comments to start with 👆
You have everything you need, so it's worth to go 3 routes in my opinion:

1. Get something that you'll use
2. Upgrade what you have
3. Get something for collection that you will use enjoying the process

So:

1. Get yourself a 75 APO which you will use at some point. 75 APO is just a joy to use and you'll definitely "add" to your photographs, just try it once. 
To couple that, since some funds will remain after APO 75 - I'd go for Steel Rim 35mm Summilux. Yes you have a lot of 35mm, yes you don't need another one, but at 1.4 Steel Rim is something special in terms of its character and usability
If you're lucky and still have some funds - search for Summicron 40mm, which is also a very special thing for collection and not that crazy expensive

2. Switch M6 to MP, 50 Cron v4 to 50 APO, switch 2 of 35mm to one 35 APO or Lux FLE II and look what you use less - just get rid of things that are not constantly in rotation.

3. A whole lot of options are possible, just a few to mention:
    - search for nice condition fully manual M3DS with older 35mm with Goggles. It's just pure class combo
    - look for some vintage lenses that have value and character, they have good value retention on top of other characteristics.

To be honest you already have everything necessary and all other options are just upgrades. Personally, I'd just go all in with upgrading my Leica lenses to pair with M6 and M10 since you have some supporting gear from other brands and switch M6 to MP that will age beautifully with usage

Yes, focusing on upgrading and selling older gears is the way to go!

1. 75 APO is definitely an interesting option I have not yet considered. And I am still thinking about getting the steel rim 35mm. I will wait for a few more years until Leica stablize the production  

2. I just brought the MP. I am getting rid of some 35mm lens such as Voigtlander 35mm Ultron II which I no longer use. Going to APO would be a big step. I am not doing it yet.

3.  M3DS + vintage lenses sounds good! Instead of getting the perfect APO lens, I would prefer to go vintage.

Edited June 17, 2024 by KenLW

[KenLW]

On 5/24/2024 at 10:40 PM, harmen said:

I would say ‘yes’ to all.  None are needed.  None have an ROI similar to your current gear.  All are great ways of marking an occasion and adding sparkle to your life.

The black paint MP is a real joy to hold.  The better viewfinder also makes it a tad better in use than the (original) M6.  If a film M is what you use the most, it’s wonderful to have a tool in hand that is just so superb.

The two lenses are superb and there is something to say for owning at least one ‘ultimate’ Leica lens.  For some it’s the Noctilux, for others the 28 Summilux, or it could be one of these.

The M11 might not be something to keep forever, so the big question is what difference it will make.  For me, coming from a M(240), I found that I could finally appreciate digital photos as much as film.  You’d have to try before you buy.

(My own recent look for something new led me to the 35 APO by way of the 907x & 100c… I chose the lens in order to have something that has medium format qualities and a wonderful smooth transition to out of focus.  I had hoped the Hasselblad could provide a Rolleicord like experience, but the glaring digital display and the size put me off.  I don’t have an old body to use it as a back with.)

Thanks for the suggestions! 35 APO for digital medium format clarify does justify a high cost of the APO lens. May I also suggest the GFX100s if you have not yet tried it. Even with the 35-70 kit lens, the GFX system offers very high photo with a practicality of a modern mirrorless camera and is a fraction of the price comparing to 35 APO or 907x & 100c. It won't have the digital display brightness issue of 907x 100c either.  

[KenLW]

On 5/28/2024 at 6:35 PM, BWColor said:

Money in search of a product.  I think this is a common thing amongst Leica owners.   For me, I spend money on my hobbies because it gets me excited about life.  Try something new, like a Monochrom, or a great printer, or whatever item in your lists gets you up at night thinking of how to use it.  Nobody can tell you what to get, but many of us can relate to the rational employed to get something when you really don’t need anything.  So, this is really more of a support group.  Unfortunately, it is also an enabling group.  So, enjoy whatever you decide to buy.  I’m looking at a large printer, but I think my wife would literally kill me..but great prints are a must vs. images sitting on a computer drive..  Buying extra ‘M’ bodies, or upgrading my A7Riv is easy.. the new looks like the old, but a two to three hundred pound printer, just might get noticed.

Well said, you don't need an extra 'M' body or upgrading A7RIV. For me, film and older lens would bring me more joy than any other purchase so I will focus on those for now. 

[KenLW]

On 5/30/2024 at 8:18 PM, Pika898 said:

I have the M11-P and the APO summicron 35 as my one lens one camera set up and it has been a blast to use. 

I previously had the M10 and a bunch of other cv/leica lenses including the 35 fle but got tired quickly of deciding what lens to bring out with me.  

My rationale for going with this combination is to simplify my kit to worry less about gear and focus on photography. I had required specific features as I use my M mostly as a travel camera. 

- Versatile kit (i wouldn’t need f1.4 with the m11)

- USB-C charging 

- Long battery life

- Small compact lens

- Close focus capability  

- Ability to quickly import/edit in Lr on my iPad or phone. 

The APO summicron 35/M11-P combo is indeed excessive but it’s the only combination from Leica that fits all my requirements and seems to end all GAS at least for me.

 

Actually, we have pretty much the same requirements for travel. My only complain with the M10 is lack of USB-C charging. I do see your point of one lens and one camera setup. Hopefully I can get there one day after all the trials and errors and learning along the way!

[KenLW]

Thank you all for the great comments, suggestions, and advice!

I got a new Leica MP which instantly became my favorite camera!

I went a Leica store to try out M11-P, 35 summliux FLEII, Leica MP, and reissued Leica M6. 

- 35 summliux FLEII: this was an instant no for me. The aperture ring was a little bit loose. Maybe I am exaggerating but I don't think the build quality was as good as my 1992 Leica Summicron 50mm V4. Also, in general, I prefer the look of older lens so I will focus on getting some good quality old lenses.

- M11-P is very nice but because it is so similar to M10 for me (except for the USB-C charging), I don't think I should spend the money on M11-P. 

- Reissued Leica M6 operates slightly like my original Leica M6 with the better viewfinder. Because my original Leica M6 has some nostalgic value, I don't plan to sell it so I will not get the reissued Leica M6.

- Leica MP: I can't resist the black paint. Plus I just want to buy my first new Leica or first new film camera for that matter.

I also took the advice of selling unused gears. I have already sold my Sony A7RV plus a standard zoom lens for the Sony system. I plan to sell more gears this year just to keep the essentials.

I am currently looking for a good copy of 35mm summicron pre-ASPH and I plan to sell all of my other 35mm lens once I get it. This should keep me busy for a while and keep my GAS in check.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2024 by KenLW

[hansvons]

On 6/17/2024 at 11:59 PM, KenLW said:

Because my original Leica M6 has some nostalgic value, I don't plan to sell it so I will not get the reissued Leica M6.

Now you got a pair of film Ms. That's a wise decision because film cameras always want to come in pairs. B&W + colour, ISO 400 + ISO 100, etc. 

 

[costa43]

On 5/7/2024 at 10:01 AM, Al Brown said:

Tip #2: Spend the money for the bucket list trip of a lifetime. Take your existing gear.

This is what I would do. Spend the 8k on a trip to a place you’ve always wanted to visit, take the m6 and a bunch of film and the m10 and make memories. 
 

Edited June 19, 2024 by costa43

[ktmrider2]

I, like you, was in a similar position back in February.  I was looking at a MP, MA and M10R and I ended up with a black paint MP.  Now, I have a black paint MP and a fifty year old black chrome fifty anniversary M4 in mint condition.  It is hard to tell them apart by looking through the viewfinder (except for obvious things like paired frame lines, meter etc).  Honestly, I kept hearing how much brighter the MP would be and I don't see it but that black paint is beautiful.  Perhaps because the original M4 still had the condenser in the viewfinder which was removed on the M4-2.  I have lots of M mount lenses but I paired it with a collapsable 50f2.8 Elmar (black) and leaving a lot of other lenses in the closet when I travel.

I am planning a round the world trip this fall with stops in Japan, Korea, Philippines, Australia, India, Egypt, France and Ireland.  The challenge is getting it all in carry on.  If I take two cameras I don't think I can do it.  I have broken away from the Leica cult for the second camera and recently purchased a Nikon Zf (which will take all my M mount lenses).  For 25% of the cost of a M10 or M11, I could not pass it up.  I purchased it on the day I was leaving Alaska for travel and the new body was defective so it is still in Alaska (heading back to Anchorage 27 June) but that is another story.

I have been using M's since 1975.  It really is an addiction worse than any drug.  But it is fun.  And I had not purchased a new Leica since the M6TTL about 1996 so I figured I owed it to myself.  Have fun with your new M (and try the Zeiss 35f2.8 C-Biogon if you can live with f2.8, amazing lens).

Edited June 19, 2024 by ktmrider2

[KenLW]

On 6/18/2024 at 4:24 PM, hansvons said:

Now you got a pair of film Ms. That's a wise decision because film cameras always want to come in pairs. B&W + colour, ISO 400 + ISO 100, etc. 

 

This a great idea. I am more used to putting the same film into the Ms with different lens. Using different ISOs or B&W + color is a great idea!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[KenLW]

On 6/19/2024 at 7:43 AM, ktmrider2 said:

I, like you, was in a similar position back in February.  I was looking at a MP, MA and M10R and I ended up with a black paint MP.  Now, I have a black paint MP and a fifty year old black chrome fifty anniversary M4 in mint condition.  It is hard to tell them apart by looking through the viewfinder (except for obvious things like paired frame lines, meter etc).  Honestly, I kept hearing how much brighter the MP would be and I don't see it but that black paint is beautiful.  Perhaps because the original M4 still had the condenser in the viewfinder which was removed on the M4-2.  I have lots of M mount lenses but I paired it with a collapsable 50f2.8 Elmar (black) and leaving a lot of other lenses in the closet when I travel.

I am planning a round the world trip this fall with stops in Japan, Korea, Philippines, Australia, India, Egypt, France and Ireland.  The challenge is getting it all in carry on.  If I take two cameras I don't think I can do it.  I have broken away from the Leica cult for the second camera and recently purchased a Nikon Zf (which will take all my M mount lenses).  For 25% of the cost of a M10 or M11, I could not pass it up.  I purchased it on the day I was leaving Alaska for travel and the new body was defective so it is still in Alaska (heading back to Anchorage 27 June) but that is another story.

I have been using M's since 1975.  It really is an addiction worse than any drug.  But it is fun.  And I had not purchased a new Leica since the M6TTL about 1996 so I figured I owed it to myself.  Have fun with your new M (and try the Zeiss 35f2.8 C-Biogon if you can live with f2.8, amazing lens).

Yeah! I feel like the MP finder is slightly better than the one from my M6 but I have noticed significant difference which is contrary to what other people's experience. 

I envy you! I wish I could take more time off work for a word trip like yours! I am sure you would enjoy it a lot not matter camera(s) you decided to bring with you! The Nikon Zf is very nice! You could even get one of those Techart autofocus adapter for all of your M lens to have autofocus with the Zf.

Yes, I am interested in getting a Zeiss lens at some point. It should be either a 28mm or 35mm.