Disappointing sensor cleaning experience with Leica USA

[crons]

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On 4/27/2024 at 8:52 AM, SOHODE said:

Hi everyone,

I recently had a less-than-ideal experience with the sensor cleaning service for my Leica M10. After waiting patiently for six weeks, I received my camera back from Leica USA only to find that the sensor actually has more dust on it now compared to before. As someone who frequently shoots at smaller apertures, this is quite frustrating.

To add to the disappointment, I also discovered a scratch on the camera screen that wasn't there before I sent it in. Needless to say, I didn’t expect this.

I already tried cleaning the sensor myself using different methods before sending it to Leica, but unfortunately, I wasn’t able to achieve satisfactory results, which is why I ultimately sent it to Leica USA for professional cleaning.

Additionally, it looks like Leica has used a resin stick tool during the cleaning process, which seems to have only multiplied the (potentially) oily dust on the sensor, exacerbating the issue.

I emailed Leica USA about the issue, but unfortunately, I haven't received a response yet. In the meantime, I thought I'd turn to the experienced users here on the forum for some advice.

I've attached before-and-after (Leica service) photos of the sensor to provide some context.

Has anyone else encountered a similar situation, and if so, how did you handle it? I tried wet swap multiple times (before sending it to Leica) and I got some improvement but every time, in addition to cleaning some spots it added some new tiny dust to the sensor. 

Any insights or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all 

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I clean the sensor myself. Usually just the blower will do, once I had to use the wet swab. Very easy to do. I use the APS-C size swabs so I can target where the dust is. 

My camera store does the cleaning for free. I could just go there and they'll clean it for me. They're an authorized Leica dealer. I buy all my gear from them.

To do it properly yourself I recommend:

1) get a magnifying lamp with a 10x magnifier and target the spots with an APS-C swab. This will take time. It's hard to see but with enough light and a 10x magnifier you can. 

Something like this

https://www.a.ubuy.com.kw/en/product/9MCIM96I-magnifying-glass-lamp-with-led-light-and-stand-5x-10x-magnifier-lightweight-and-adjustable-table-and

Once you shove your eye into the small 10x portion you'll see everything on the sensor as you move it around. As soon as you look at it with the naked eye theyll dissappear. They're impossible to see without the magnifier. 

2) Don't expect absolute perfection. Having one or 2 little spots is acceptable. 

Last time I had some nasty dust and I just blew it with the airblower. But before that I can't remember when I cleaned it last. I used to be obsessed with it. Now if I ever see a spot or 2 I just clone them out. 

As for Leica stores.. I don't deal with them. Never have. Unless I need to claim some sort of warranty or send it for repairs. I just deal with my camera store.

Edited June 2, 2024 by crons

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[lldd]

On 4/30/2024 at 7:23 AM, strangeboy said:

Uhm... no.

I sent my camera in for custom leather ( pre-ordered ) via the Leica Individualisation program, which included a CLA. Had the camera back within 10 days. Noticed that the rear screen was protruding from the camera just a bit, sent the camera in to have that corrected, and had the camera back in within a week.

But what you'd like us to believe is that Leica kept your camera for 6 weeks just to perform a service that literally takes a few minutes?

Nope, nope,  nope.

I sent mine in to have the baseplate adjusted (not sure if the problem is the plate or the latch on the camera).  Should take an hour to two at most.  During an email exchange with Leica, they said it would be a minimum of 7 weeks.  Service times can vary due to volumes, so just because you had a quick turnaround doesn't mean everyone does.

[Mikep996]

I've cleaned the sensors on various digital cameras with no problem.  But as has been noted, it's pretty much impossible to remove ALL dust particles plus they will begin returning the instant you finish cleaning.  I haven't found that even fairly large particles make any visible difference in a photo unless you are cropping by large amounts.  

But cleaning is part of "normal maintenance unless you are using the only sensor I know of that "cleans itself" after every shot... film!  😉

[crons]

Yea. I would only clean it if you start noticing a lot of dust in your normal kind of photos. When it starts being an issue. 

Go at it with a blower and get a small sensor wipe to wipe off any dust specs that bother you and you're done. 

I remember once when I started with cameras I went through an entire pack of sensor wipes trying to make it perfect. Sometimes I got streaks. It was a mess. That's when I started buying the APS-c wipes and doing it my way. 

[strangeboy]

On 6/25/2024 at 5:59 PM, lldd said:

I sent mine in to have the baseplate adjusted (not sure if the problem is the plate or the latch on the camera).  Should take an hour to two at most.  During an email exchange with Leica, they said it would be a minimum of 7 weeks.  Service times can vary due to volumes, so just because you had a quick turnaround doesn't mean everyone does.

So...

Baseplate adjustment is not run-of-the-mill service. If the plate is misaligned, they first have to figure out what's going on, then the best way to fix it. This might even include replacing a part. The point is, they won't know until they get into it. 

In addition, as explained to me by Kathy Carbone at Leica NJ, not all the techs perform the same work. And that's how you get a 7 week estimate. The actual time could be half that.

Conversely, sensor cleaning is one of the most basic tasks for camera maintenance. Assuming you weren't standing in the middle of a mud storm with the lens off and the shutter open, the receptionist could probably take care of it for you.

[crons]

5 hours ago, strangeboy said:

Conversely, sensor cleaning is one of the most basic tasks for camera maintenance. Assuming you weren't standing in the middle of a mud storm with the lens off and the shutter open, the receptionist could probably take care of it for you.

This is something every camera owner should do just like cleaning your lens or the outside of your camera. 

[strangeboy]

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5 hours ago, crons said:

This is something every camera owner should do just like cleaning your lens or the outside of your camera. 

Yep. But I think folks need to let go a bit. Dust is with us always. It's the daily detritus of life. Brand new cameras and lenses arrive, dust included, no additional charge 🤪. It's just a matter of time before that dust makes its way to your sensor. Even then, you may never notice it in a photograph.

And when you see it, use the tools in your editing program to deal with it. And when that starts to become a pain in the ass, clean your sensor. Then check your lenses and body caps, etc, to make sure you're not just putting the dust right back on your camera.

[crons]

Sensor cleaning depending on use, maybe you'll do a few times a year. Not very often. Some people do a lot of travel and change their lenses on the go outside constantly. So it depends. 

If it needs to be cleaned just clean it. But if someone is really scared well my store does it for free. So I can always just go there and have it done. 

[lldd]

On 6/30/2024 at 1:03 AM, strangeboy said:

So...

Baseplate adjustment is not run-of-the-mill service. If the plate is misaligned, they first have to figure out what's going on, then the best way to fix it. This might even include replacing a part. The point is, they won't know until they get into it. 

In addition, as explained to me by Kathy Carbone at Leica NJ, not all the techs perform the same work. And that's how you get a 7 week estimate. The actual time could be half that.

Conversely, sensor cleaning is one of the most basic tasks for camera maintenance. Assuming you weren't standing in the middle of a mud storm with the lens off and the shutter open, the receptionist could probably take care of it for you.

Got the camera back.  I hour of work, so not much harder than a sensor cleaning.  But, the camera was scratched through to the metal by Leica, so back again to NJ.  No idea on turn around time this time.  Once it comes back repaired, I'm selling it.  The fact that it not only takes so long, be requires rework is something I'm no longer willing to tolerate.  

[strangeboy]

On 7/10/2024 at 1:29 PM, lldd said:

.  But, the camera was scratched through to the metal by Leica, so back again to NJ.  No idea on turn around time this time.  Once it comes back repaired, I'm selling it.

Jeezus. This is ridiculous. It's like they have an A Team and a B Team working there. I've only had good results from Jersey, and an excellent service representative. Are you leaving Leica altogether?

[lldd]

On 7/14/2024 at 11:04 PM, strangeboy said:

Jeezus. This is ridiculous. It's like they have an A Team and a B Team working there. I've only had good results from Jersey, and an excellent service representative. Are you leaving Leica altogether?

I think so.  I won't buy an M11 due to all of the issues.  And the SL line no longer provides an image IQ advantage over other brands.  I am a believer that Leica's color remains somewhat unique and my favorite of all the brands I've used.  But the high cost, ongoing quality issues, and long turn around times on repairs overshadows any strengths the brand may still offer.  I get the Leica philosophy of providing straightforward cameras that give the photographer exactly what they need.  And I applaud that.  But if they can't execute it well, from a value proposition it's hard to stay in Leica's game.  

[Jim B]

12 minutes ago, lldd said:

I think so.  I won't buy an M11 due to all of the issues.  And the SL line no longer provides an image IQ advantage over other brands.  I am a believer that Leica's color remains somewhat unique and my favorite of all the brands I've used.  But the high cost, ongoing quality issues, and long turn around times on repairs overshadows any strengths the brand may still offer.  I get the Leica philosophy of providing straightforward cameras that give the photographer exactly what they need.  And I applaud that.  But if they can't execute it well, from a value proposition it's hard to stay in Leica's game.  

The Leica SL Apo lenses most certainly produce one of the highest image quality In 35mmFF and exceed the quality of Hassleblad’s medium format xcd lenses. Pairing the SL APO lenses on the new SL3 with its new sensor it pretty hard to beat in IQ, dynamic range, shadow recovery, and noise… To me, the other camera’s produce images that look flat and without that 3D pop that the Leica seems to deliver image after image.

[lldd]

I can assure you from experience that there is no 3D pop from a camera sitting in a drawer in NJ for months on end.

Edited July 20, 2024 by lldd

[charlesphoto99]

On 7/14/2024 at 11:04 PM, strangeboy said:

Jeezus. This is ridiculous. It's like they have an A Team and a B Team working there. I've only had good results from Jersey, and an excellent service representative. Are you leaving Leica altogether?

It's been hit or miss over the years for me as well (back to the mid-nineties). Always a known problem. Does make one want to hold onto something once it's been gotten right. Even my M10-R black paint has been back twice (under warranty), first out of the box for a mis-calibrated rangefinder, and then a couple of years later for non-responsive back buttons over a certain ambient temp. But all work now. It's certainly not a camera for the impatient, and best to have a couple (or few) around for those downtimes. Doesn't excuse Leica's poor service and turnaround times though, but it just is what it is if one wants to shoot that 'perfect' form factor in a camera...

[strangeboy]

On 7/20/2024 at 4:39 PM, lldd said:

I can assure you from experience that there is no 3D pop from a camera sitting in a drawer in NJ for months on end.

And that's that.

[jdlaing]

On 6/1/2024 at 11:08 PM, tofuぼけ said:

After my recent Leica support experience, this is something I fear as I, too, want to send in a camera for a sensor cleaning. 
 

got a used M10M recently. Noticed the rangefinder patch was misaligned when focusing on close distances so I sent it off to Leica in NJ. It returned with a scratch on the rangefinder window and a fingerprint smudge on the INSIDE glass of the rangefinder window. I immediately noticed it and sent it back. Good news, they replaced the top portion of the camera. Bad news, the rangefinder patch was now misaligned at infinity. I had to send it back a 3rd time to finally get the issue fixed. 
I wonder if the same tech that worked on my camera worked on yours? 
This experience has made me lose confidence in their services. Lesson learned for me: take photos of my camera from every angle before I send it in. Hope you hear back and that it gets sorted out. 

Is the rangefinder patch misaligned when you have the lens at the hard stop at infinity?

[lldd]

On 7/10/2024 at 11:29 AM, lldd said:

Got the camera back.  I hour of work, so not much harder than a sensor cleaning.  But, the camera was scratched through to the metal by Leica, so back again to NJ.  No idea on turn around time this time.  Once it comes back repaired, I'm selling it.  The fact that it not only takes so long, be requires rework is something I'm no longer willing to tolerate.  

Camera is back for the second time.  Rangefinder is completely out of alignment with front focus issues.  I sent the camera in originally for a loose baseplate.  Why they messed with the rangefinder is beyond me.  It now needs to go back for a third time, two of which are to resolve issues caused by Leica repair.  You can't make this stuff up.  

[lldd]

The camera is now back to Leica for a fourth time.  Multiple issues still unresolved.  Service Manager now involved.  I just cancelled my SL3 order and bought a Z8.  Will be selling a barely used mint condition M10-R once it comes back.  As Leica's prices continue to increase, and their issues (new hardware and services) mount, the value proposition continues to decline.  I love the image quality and shooting experience, but the downsides, for me, simply make this untenable.  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[gotium]

9 hours ago, lldd said:

The camera is now back to Leica for a fourth time.  Multiple issues still unresolved.  Service Manager now involved.  I just cancelled my SL3 order and bought a Z8.  Will be selling a barely used mint condition M10-R once it comes back.  As Leica's prices continue to increase, and their issues (new hardware and services) mount, the value proposition continues to decline.  I love the image quality and shooting experience, but the downsides, for me, simply make this untenable.  

Been there, done that (except for the Nikon part)

[tofuぼけ]

On 7/22/2024 at 9:16 AM, jdlaing said:

Is the rangefinder patch misaligned when you have the lens at the hard stop at infinity?

Prior to the fix, yes, the patch was misaligned throughout the distance scale of the lens.