Summilux 75mm on my M10

[Tobias]

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Hi all photographers! I just mounted my M 75 Summilux on my M10 and took a few shots while in the forest with my kids. It showed almost all shots were out of focus, and yes I did focus them correctly with the rangefinder. The same lens focusses correctly on my M9 and M240, so the fact that it does not on my M10 is a mystery to me. Yes, I can use the live view instead but I do find it much better to use the rangefinder…when it works, that is. My other lenses such as 50 cron and 35 lux work good on the M10 and focus well..strange isn’t it that the 75 does not? In the attached image, I focussed on the thin branch in the middle. The tree to the right did show up in focus, while the branch did not. Should I simply send the lens to Leica for service? 

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Edited March 30, 2024 by Tobias

[graphlex]

75mm Summiluxes seem to vary as much as seventeenth-century violins and like those instruments, some have had an unfortunate repair history.  The movie “Red Violin” comes to mind.  Many samples are fine and others behave as you describe. They are very tricky to adjust. FWIW, my recently acquired sample—despite being > 40 years old, focuses fine on my M10 (at the moment), near and far. (This has deterred me from sending it anywhere for 6-bit coding.)

If you can’t return yours, it would be worth trying a repair person you trust. Besides Leica (who might take a very long time), DAG and Skylanney, among others, are reported to have worked wonders with this lens if the sample isn’t too far gone.

[69xchange]

These lenses are very frustrating to deal with if you don't have a good copy. Film is slightly more lenient when it comes to focus accuracy where as digital sensors have a higher tolerance. It is weird how the 75mm lux focuses well on your M9 and M24,  but off on your M10. Its possible that one of the bodies might be slightly off because the cam has a short and long distance adjustment. The 75mm lux is also complicated in terms of adjustment as well. Do you have the V1 or V2 75mm lux? I read somewhere that the 75mm lux can be adjusted for accurate focus from short range-mid range or mid range to far range. So in other words, you can only pick if you want focus accuracy when shot wide open from MFD - mid range or mid range to infinity depending on your shooting style. My 75mm lux was sent to DAG for calibration and it nails focus from MFD-mid range but the focus is really off at infinity until I stop the lens down to F4. 

[LocalHero1953]

See:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/377640-mysterious-summilux-7514-focusing-problem/

for some technical enlightenment.

Edited March 31, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[LocalHero1953]

8 hours ago, Tobias said:

Hi all photographers! I just mounted my M 75 Summilux on my M10 and took a few shots while in the forest with my kids. It showed almost all shots were out of focus, and yes I did focus them correctly with the rangefinder. The same lens focusses correctly on my M9 and M240, so the fact that it does not on my M10 is a mystery to me. Yes, I can use the live view instead but I do find it much better to use the rangefinder…when it works, that is. My other lenses such as 50 cron and 35 lux work good on the M10 and focus well..strange isn’t it that the 75 does not? In the attached image, I focussed on the thin branch in the middle. The tree to the right did show up in focus, while the branch did not. Should I simply send the lens to Leica for service? 

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It's difficult to see the problem in your image. Is the branch in the middle the same distance as the tree trunk on the right? TBH the branch looks like it could be movement blur: the bokeh does not look quite right for simple out of focus - could that be possible?

A lens that focuses well on two other bodies, and other lenses that focus well on three bodies defy easy diagnosis, including assessing whether it is your Summilux or bodies which are at fault. Your Summicron 50 and Summilux 35 will both have greater depth of focus than a Summilux 75 wide open close up, so you may not have noticed body calibration problems before. I suggest some more controlled testing with a tape measure and the Visoflex (or live view on the screen) is required. It is worth while doing as much investigation yourself before sending a lens off for repair that you later find is fine (or as good as it can be). And sending it to Leica means you won't see it for 6-12 months, and when you get it back you will get no information about what they have discovered or corrected. Which country do you live in? That would help us suggest alternative repairers.

Edited March 31, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[69xchange]

^ I agree, further testing is required to confirm it’s the lens issue before sending the lens in. My summilux came back with scratches / oil marks on aperture blades that weren’t there before. 

[evikne]

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I've also experienced the challenges this lens often comes with. What's also frustrating is that when the focus is actually in the right place, there's hardly any substitute for this lens; it creates the world's most wonderful rendering.

[didier]

When you a have a fast Lens (noct 50 or 75 ‘lux), It is better to have it adjusted to your camera. I had mine adjusted in Werzlar and it works perfectly ever since.

[Tobias]

Thanks a lot for all your comments! About the image, I focused on the thin branch in the middle, which was further away than the tree to the right. It was no wind. So the lens has a front focus issue since the tree came out in focus. As you suggest, I will do more tryouts f x with a tape measure. One option is to just live with it, and use the75 with live view although that is not what I prefer. Or I will send it to Wetzlar, not too far away since I live in Malmö, Sweden. There are a few stores in nearby Copenhagen as well, although I do not actually know if they have workshops in house. About the lens, it’s a 2nd version I think, it’s made in Canada, has the 6bit coding and is from the early 90’s.  From the look of it, it has not been used much. I bought it from an old man a few years ago. 

[69xchange]

19 minutes ago, Tobias said:

Thanks a lot for all your comments! About the image, I focused on the thin branch in the middle, which was further away than the tree to the right. It was no wind. So the lens has a front focus issue since the tree came out in focus. As you suggest, I will do more tryouts f x with a tape measure. One option is to just live with it, and use the75 with live view although that is not what I prefer. Or I will send it to Wetzlar, not too far away since I live in Malmö, Sweden. There are a few stores in nearby Copenhagen as well, although I do not actually know if they have workshops in house. About the lens, it’s a 2nd version I think, it’s made in Canada, has the 6bit coding and is from the early 90’s.  From the look of it, it has not been used much. I bought it from an old man a few years ago. 

If your lens is front focusing on your M10 at mid distance, how does it focus at other distances such as MFD and infinity at f/1.4? One of them should be spot on at least. Also are you able to 100% confirm that the 75mm lux focuses perfectly fine on your M9 and M240 at all distance range?

Lastly, if this lens is 6-bit coded, there’s a chance that it was serviced previously and adjusted to the previous owner’s shooting preference which could be accurate focus on close ups or accurate focusing at infinity (I believe it’s the latter). 

Edited March 31, 2024 by 69xchange

[Stuart Richardson]

19 hours ago, Tobias said:

Thanks a lot for all your comments! About the image, I focused on the thin branch in the middle, which was further away than the tree to the right. It was no wind. So the lens has a front focus issue since the tree came out in focus. As you suggest, I will do more tryouts f x with a tape measure. One option is to just live with it, and use the75 with live view although that is not what I prefer. Or I will send it to Wetzlar, not too far away since I live in Malmö, Sweden. There are a few stores in nearby Copenhagen as well, although I do not actually know if they have workshops in house. About the lens, it’s a 2nd version I think, it’s made in Canada, has the 6bit coding and is from the early 90’s.  From the look of it, it has not been used much. I bought it from an old man a few years ago. 

If you send it somewhere, I would say there is not that much point without also sending the body (and your other lenses). Unfortunately the M mount is at the limit of its mechanical tolerance on the higher resolution digital M cameras, and it is not easy for Leica to match everything to an exact standard, even if that is the ideal. It has been my experience, and those of others that I have heard, is that it is best to match the body to each lens. This need not necessarily be done by Leica...an experience service technician used to Leica could do it as well. Unfortunately there are just so many variables when dealing with multiple different lenses, bodies and also time...most 75mm summiluxes are over 20 years old, and over that time they will have been subjected to a lot of handling, thermal expansion and contraction cycles, and just general wear and tear. It sucks to be without the camera and lenses, but the question is whether the wait is worth having it all work well together. If you are the type to change bodies and lenses frequently, then it is probably not worth it. But if you stick with the same lenses and bodies for years, it probably is.

[Stuart Richardson]

P.S. The people at the Leica Store in Copenhagen are very nice, in my experience. I am sure they would help. There is also One of Many Cameras, which is a cool analog store. They say that they do RF adjustments on Leicas. https://oneofmanycameras.com/pages/camera-repairs

 

[Tobias]

Thanks! That’s a great advice!!!