35mm summicron v4 for my first Leica lens

[Arianna]

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Hello, I’m new to the forum and looking for advice. I’m looking to buy a 35mm f2 summicron v4. I currently own the Voightlander Nokton Classic F1.4 II MC, and before that one the new Ultron F2, I decided to keep the Nokton because of the extra light and honestly it’s character, the Ultron is a little too “correct”. I would probably be okay as long as I’m shooting bw, but I shoot color 80% of the time… both on film. Having said that, I found an option in eBay from a respectable seller, the lens has been cla’d and looks great, but he said it has a cleaning mark in the rear element that doesn’t affect the photos. I’m attaching a photo to see if anyone here can give me some advice in this regard, I usually look for pristine glass but it seems this “cleaning marks” are common? 

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[jaapv]

I would never buy a lens with a mark on the rear element.

As a side remark, The Nokton is such a lovely lens that the Summicron is not likely to replace it. Shouldn't you look at a different focal length for you Leica lens?

[Arianna]

22 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I would never buy a lens with a mark on the rear element.

As a side remark, The Nokton is such a lovely lens that the Summicron is not likely to replace it. Shouldn't you look at a different focal length for you Leica lens?

I will keep using the Nokton for as long as it takes to find a copy of the summicron that I’m happy with, and can safely afford. I know that I will end up buying it because it’s my keep forever lens, but the Nokton is so inexpensive that makes sense to keep it and then resell, I just don’t want to wait until the cron gets so expensive that I can no longer afford it. Thank you, I needed to hear from someone here, specially the appreciation for Voightlander lenses.

 

oh I plan on adding a 50 and maybe 28 or 75.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Arianna

[jaapv]

I think that the Nokton II is a better lens than a Summicron 4 optically. I use it as a substitute for the Summilux 50 asph. If truth be told, I replaced quite a few Leica lenses with Zeiss and Voigtländer ones because I liked the results better. If you are planning on a 75, have a look at the Voigtländer Heliar 85.

[enrico58]

Hello,

in my opinion this Summicron may have a beginning of separation, see iridescence at the bottom right, rather than cleaning marks. I think it should be avoided when in doubt.

[Arianna]

30 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I think that the Nokton II is a better lens than a Summicron 4 optically. I use it as a substitute for the Summilux 50 asph. If truth be told, I replaced quite a few Leica lenses with Zeiss and Voigtländer ones because I liked the results better. If you are planning on a 75, have a look at the Voigtländer Heliar 85.

Color Heliar 75 2.5 or Heliar Classic 1.8? 

[Arianna]

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16 minutes ago, enrico58 said:

Hello,

in my opinion this Summicron may have a beginning of separation, see iridescence at the bottom right, rather than cleaning marks. I think it should be avoided when in doubt.

Absolutely, thanks for the rapid response.

[spydrxx]

Given what you have and what you want is splitting hairs, but only you can decide if it is worth it. FWIW I've had both and kept the Voigtlander.

[Pyrogallol]

See

 

[stray cat]

Hi Arianna,

The 35mm Summicron V4 was my first Leica M lens that I bought before I even had an M camera. Like you, I use it on film cameras. It is also my most used and best-liked Leica lens.

I would always err on looking for a lens that is without the kind of blemish you mention. As you indicate, it will be your "forever" lens, as mine is to me, so I'd advise that you get something in as good condition as you can find, and let any character marks it acquires be ones that your use of the lens has led it to acquire. Even if you have to pay a bit more initially, I think you'll find it worth the effort spent in seeking the right one out.

Good luck with your search and please post some images on the "I Like Film" thread.

[Arianna]

7 minutes ago, stray cat said:

Hi Arianna,

The 35mm Summicron V4 was my first Leica M lens that I bought before I even had an M camera. Like you, I use it on film cameras. It is also my most used and best-liked Leica lens.

I would always err on looking for a lens that is without the kind of blemish you mention. As you indicate, it will be your "forever" lens, as mine is to me, so I'd advise that you get something in as good condition as you can find, and let any character marks it acquires be ones that your use of the lens has led it to acquire. Even if you have to pay a bit more initially, I think you'll find it worth the effort spent in seeking the right one out.

Good luck with your search and please post some images on the "I Like Film" thread.

Thanks, I immensely appreciate the input. Will keep enjoying the Voightlander until I find the right 35 summicron v4 for me. I will definitely check that thread, I’ve film shooting film for a handful of years without showing my photos but I think it’s time

[Danner]

The V4 35mm 'Cron is my favorite M-lens.  However, no way I would buy that sample unless the prices was ridiculously low.  Wait, no, I wouldn't buy that an any price because it would forever nag me.

[RexGig0]

I will join the chorus, voicing support for the Nokton 35 II. Even though I do not have one, I did test-shoot with a friend’s Nokton 35 II MC, at a coffee shop meet-up, about a year ago. I have several Leica-brand M lenses, but also have Cosina Voigtlander VM and Zeiss ZM lenses. 

[Printmaker]

I used a 35 Summicron V4 for about 20 years and loved the lens. But those years took a toll on the lens. Hanging out of helicopters, out on boats, and just bouncing around my bag, put scuffs and then cleaning marks on the front coating. I traded it in for the latest version a few years ago. Someone bought that lens because they had to own the legend. Me, I got a lens that was sharper-bigger, yes, but definitely sharper. 
Now, if you can find a decent copy of a version 4, it’s worth getting. Tiny, light, and has a beautiful rendering. There are sharper lenses but few have the look this classic produces. 

[costa43]

If you prefer a more classic rendering, you already have it with the Nokton. I'd stick with that like others have suggested. It's a great lens and imo the biggest bargain in the Leica M universe for a new lens (35mm Color Skopar f2.5 is another good one, used it's like 300 quid) If you want Leica, which I totally understand then it's another vote for avoiding that particular sample. The rear element is the least acceptable spot for a blemish for me. With it being closest to the sensor it has the highest chance of affecting image quality. With so many wonderful options from 3rd party manufacturers, I would go with one of those or hold out for something a little cleaner.

Another option for a Leica Summicron is the v2/v3 35mm Summicron which is lower in cost and has a lovely vintage look, you also have the 40mm Summicron for an even lower price which shares the same optical design pretty much. 

 

[RexGig0]

As a follow-up to my earlier post, I am not meaning to say that one should kill the dream of owning a specific Leica lens, whether vintage or more modern. The heart wants what the heart wants. My point was that the Nokton II is a highly-regarded 35mm lens, with a bit of vintage character, and one should not feel there is any urgency to replace it with a Leica lens, and, importantly, one should not settle for a flawed Leica lens.

I cannot cite a source, at the moment, but the leader of Cosina/Voigtlander is reputed to be a true, passionate fan of vintage Leica lenses, rather than simply a business executive who is merely in it for the money. Not all M-mount (VM) Voigtlander lenses produces images with a “vintage Leica” character, but some of them certainly do.

Notably, in Voigtlander’s marketing language, the word “Vintage” is not used to refer to the character/rendering of the images. One must pay careful attention, when shopping for a Voigtlander lens, with a specific character or rendering.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2024 by RexGig0

[lct]

I would not buy a lens with a mark on the rear element either. If it were on the front element it could be a cleaning mark but on the rear element it is less likely so. As suggested above, it could be a separation issue. Anyway i would never order such an lens w/o knowing the price of the repair. As for comparing Summicron 35/2 v4 to Nokton 35/1.4, i'm not good at comparing lenses of different apertures but at f/2 and above, the SC v2 of the Nokton has a similar character as the Summicron with more distortion but less focus shift too, as far as my lenses are concerned at least. Anyway, i would no accept that damaged Summicron as is.

Edited March 8, 2024 by lct

[farnz]

Apart from the cleaning mark on the rear element I see a great big red arrow and circle on its rear element, which suggests to me that the lens might have been given as a Valentine's Day gift during its life and not been cleaned since. I'm surprised that everyone's missed the red arrow and circle. 😇

Pete.