Noctilux vs APO travel setup

[amamoy2]

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I have the privilege of some incredible travel this year.   Iceland, Spain/Portugal, New Zealand, Southeast Asia, Patagonia, Peru are all on the list.

I enjoy landscape and city shooting mostly.

I have full Leica S kit for my dedicated landscape work.  I know it is a PITA to carry around but I have it and love the results I get. and it is fully climate agnostic  In Iceland and NZ will be on multi week camper trips so can pick correct kit for the day vs hauling everything everywhere on my back.

I also have an M11 Monochrome currently w 35 apo and 50 .95 Noctilux.

I plan to bring M11M with me on travels for sure.  I am thinking 35 apo for sure.  I already have the .95 and I am thinking of adding either 75 or 90 focal lengths.  Most likely 90.

So question is do I go APO route or Noctilux route? Get 50 apo and 75/90 apo?   Or just bite the bullet and travel w the .95 and 75 Noctilux or 90 1.5?

Size/convenience/stealth vs that look when the right moment and situations manifest.

Obviously when using Monochrome for landscapes on a tripod the advantages of the noctiluxes is somewhat diminished at higher apertures vs the apo's.  Don't have the 50 apo to compare or either of the 75/90s but my assumption is that stopped down to f8 it would probably be difficult to tell the difference between them?

When walking around during the day in city or hiking I would likely have 1 lens on camera (prolly the 35 apo) and bring 1 of the Noctiluxes or both apos with me depending on the day.

Has anyone actually traveled extensively with the .95, 75 Noctilux, or 90 1.5 or combinations of them?   Again, compared to my S kit it is all very manageable.

I suppose a visoflex would also be something I need to consider if I go the Noctilux route?  

Thanks in advance.

EDH

[LeicaR10]

Amamoy2 aka EDH,   You ask some good questions.  I know you will find a good number of well meaning photographers that will offer sage advice to include myself.  I used the S system for a decade plus doing landscape photograph in remote and challenging terrain for private and corporate clients.  I also used the M system extensively when I had no choice but to travel light.  I have been to all the countries mentioned many times and offer my two cents.  Leave the Noctilux lenses at home.  You will not need them period.  I most highly recommend travel light with your 35 Apo Summicron on the Monochrom.  Perhaps get a 21 SEM and either a M 75 or 90 Apo Summicron with your 35 Apo.  Light, stellar results with the camera and lens combo.  You can crop with the 60 Mp sensor or zoom with your feet.  You will not need a 50 Apo since you have a 35 Apo.  Just move closer if needed.  So, my recommended M travel kit:  21 SEM, 35 Apo Summicron, 75 or 90 Apo Summicron (Personally, I use the M 90).  If you have vision issues focusing with the rangefinder at 75 or 90, get the Visoflex 2.  You are all set.  The Noctilux lens lineup although great, will limit you due to weight and size.  You will find at the end of those trips, patting yourself on the back for taking a light, small, yet stellar 3 lens combo for your intended purposes.   

If you were taking the S system, I would take the S 24, S45, S120 and call it a day.  You would need to take your tripod too to ensure maximum sharp resolution.  My last bit of advice, at the end of the day, its not the gear rather it is always about the light, composition and your creative vision that will render the masterpiece photograph at that moment in time.  r/ Mark

PS...I wish you safe travel.

Edited February 6, 2024 by LeicaR10

[amamoy2]

Thanks Mark for the thoughtful response.

For S kit those are the 3 lenses I plan on bringing.

I think your recommendation aligns with where I was headed.  35 apo and probably the 90 apo.  Hard to leave the .95 behind but travel light is probably the right advice w the M.

Trying to balance doing more w less and being very thoughtful w my approach with really liking the gear and having the privilege of flexibility.

Another part of me is saying an M-A and the 35 apo……. That’s all.

EDH

[John Black]

When traveling, I like lenses that are easy to focus and fast to use.  I used a 35 Lux / 90 'Cron for years when traveling on business.  Nowadays it would be even easier because there is so much "crop-ability" with 60 MP files from the Leica M's.  The 90 APO isn't the easiest lens to focus, so it's worth having the EVF on hand.  

[Jeremy Bunting]

The 50 f0.95 is really not that big. I don't understand the comments to the contrary. It may be big for M-land, but it's still pretty small relative to the average SL lens, or essentially any autofocus 50 prime in competing systems.

"You won't need it."  Well, do you like to go out in the evenings? Do you want to shoot indoor environments without flash, and at a reasonable ISO? Then yes, you may. Or maybe you just like the way this lens renders--that's the big draw of the Noctilux, isn't it? I'm sure you're already aware that your 35 APO isn't a substitute. 

I also like to shoot a couple rolls of film when I travel. Here, the 50 f0.95 again excels. I can get away with some pretty impossible lighting situations shooting 400 or 800 speed film that just wouldn't be possible at f1.4.

My point is:  you've bought yourself the best lens on the planet--use it.

As to the 75 Noctilux, this is a different animal entirely. The jump from 50 to 75 is not all that significant in my experience in terms of composition. However, the two lenses render extremely differently. Wide open, the 75 is a much sharper lens with cleaner and more consistent bokeh. For better or worse, it's tamer than the 50 f0.95. You also really need an EVF to focus the 75 Noct effectively when shooting wide open--the DOF is extremely narrow, significantly more so than the 50 f0.95 in my experience. And the viewfinder blockage is fairly extreme. And because it's so sharp, if you miss focus even a little you wind up with a razor sharp ear and a not quite right everything else. Also, my comments about the 50 notwithstanding, the 75 Noct really is quite large. I hauled it around Mexico City for a couple days last year and I would get kind of tired by the end of the day. It's also somewhat slow to focus, which is not ideal for travel photography if you're trying to capture street candids.

I have the 90 APO as well. Great lens, and can be had for not too too much. It's not a focal length I shoot with much though, and I've never traveled with this lens. What kind of stuff do you want to do with a 90?

Bottom line:  I think the 35 APO and 50 Noct would make an excellent and reasonable two lens kit for travel. I'm headed to SF on Wednesday and am planning to bring my 35 'Lux, and 50 Noct.

And maybe my 21 'Lux. 

To answer your other question above, the 50 Noct and 50 APO render pretty similarly once you're stopped down to f2.8 or so. 

 

Edited February 6, 2024 by Jeremy Bunting

[IkarusJohn]

I’m with Jeremy.

I traveled thrugh NY some years ago with my Monochrom and 50 Noctillux 0.95 (with filters) and used it a lot and loved it - it isn’t that big or heavy compared to S or SL kit, and contrary to what you read here, you don’t have to use it wide open all the time.  That’s just one of its strengths - it’s much like the 50 Summilux ASPh stopped down.

If you’re taking your S kit, then I would suggest you take something quite different with your M11 Monochrom.  I’d take the 35 APO Summicron (a lovely, compact go anywhere lens) and I’d take the Noctilux.  You won’t need an EVF, unless you plan some extreme shots with the Noct and close-up with the 35 APO.

I wouldn’t bother with the 90 - I sold mine.

[FrozenInTime]

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I travelled with a M9, M9M with the 35 Summilux ASPH pre-FLE and 50/0.95 Noctilux after I fell out with the sticky focus on my 50mm Summilux ASPH.

Realistically the Noctilux is too heavy to everyday carry at the ready on the wrist, so would not be a first travel choice unless you are specifically seeking to isolate people from background clutter. It did however do a good job shooting landscape stopped down, and indoors wide open (640 ISO with the M9 back then), so not bad for car based travel.

During daylight hours, I now mostly use the Voigtlander 35 and 50mm APO-Lanthars or small character lenses with the M10 and M10M. Rarely, if even, use a 28mm or 75mm and sold all my 21mm and 90mm lenses. The Noctilux only comes out on special occasions. 

When I retire, I will likely further simplify everything, sell all the old, fast and third party character lenses to travel light with just the latest 35 and 50 Summilux FLE lenses, which seem to have improved mechanicals and flare control over the first generation of ASPH lenses.

[Budfox]

For that much travel, and that you are already carrying a full medium format kit for landscape, I'd just go with the 35 APO on the M11M and never worry about changing lenses.

Edited February 6, 2024 by Budfox

[MarkP]

25 minutes ago, Budfox said:

For that much travel, and that you are already carrying a full medium format kit for landscape, I'd just go with the 35 APO on the M11M and never worry about changing lenses.

Exactly what I was about to suggest.

[tom0511]

I dont know, but for me the lighter smaller lenses work better on the M.

I love the 21SEM, 35 APO, 50 APO and 75.

I have some good experience with the CV 75/1.5 - reasonable size, nice rendering, and f1.5.

Once had a 50/0.95 but found it too hard to nail focus for anything but still things. 50 APO allready gives me nice bokeh. For me 75 and 90 Noctilux are too big for M lenses and too shallow DOF for a rangefinder. OK , you can use EVF. 

If I want that shallow DOF I rather use my SL 50/1.4 on the SL2-S or RF85/1.2 on Canon R5 and take advntage of a good face detection AF.

 

[rustyrus]

I own the 35, 50, 90 APO- They are all stunning lenses and very easy to carry. The 90 is a bit longer but for me its critical when you want to flatten out a scene- 

I really don’t enjoy using the 50 .95 so I wouldn’t be inclined to use it at all just from a handling perspective. That’s my personal taste though- 

 

I think you will really want the 90’s longer reach and landscape capabilities in NZ. It’s such a phenomenal lens on the M11m. As well as the 50 APO just for a small easy 50 to attach to the M11m. 

I would also grab yellow and orange filters, worst case, grab a yellow filter and just leave it on for all things- 

Lastly I hate recommending lenses and not showing pictures- One because you should own the lenses you recommend but 2, its a photo forum Good Luck

90 APO top 50 APO bottom- Love both 

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[jgeenen]

For Landscape and street architecture you have the S setup. For street, people and indoors the M with the 35mm and the Noct 50mm is a great addition (although I would prefer a f/1.4 lens). I don't think you need the 90mm on the M that often (and if you want to compress landscapes, take a crop out of the 120mm S lens or the 50mm M lens). For versatility, a true wide angle could come in handy - I have almost always a 3.5/21mm from Voigtländer in my bag, which does not eat up much space and weight. 

In general - not talking about a specific lens right now - you should prepare for a comparingly small "always available" camera - i.e. the M with the 35mm or a 28mm. It is sometimes very convenient to walk the streets without too much gear (especially in crowded SE Asia streets at a mediterranean street cafe).

[Jeremy Bunting]

34 minutes ago, rustyrus said:

I own the 35, 50, 90 APO- They are all stunning lenses and very easy to carry. The 90 is a bit longer but for me its critical when you want to flatten out a scene- 

I really don’t enjoy using the 50 .95 so I wouldn’t be inclined to use it at all just from a handling perspective. That’s my personal taste though- 

 

I think you will really want the 90’s longer reach and landscape capabilities in NZ. It’s such a phenomenal lens on the M11m. As well as the 50 APO just for a small easy 50 to attach to the M11m. 

I would also grab yellow and orange filters, worst case, grab a yellow filter and just leave it on for all things- 

Lastly I hate recommending lenses and not showing pictures- One because you should own the lenses you recommend but 2, its a photo forum Good Luck

90 APO top 50 APO bottom- Love both 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Lovely shots (even though I disagree with you about the Noctilux)!

[yanidel]

I wouldn't go to South America with so much value in a camera bag, that's for sure. 

[Stuart Richardson]

I think Mark gave great advice. If you are bringing both, the S kit can give you the image quality and color, and its lenses are stunning for bokeh and shallow depth of field work. The advantage of the M10M is extremely high quality in a compact package. Exactly the advantage of the 35mm APO. I agree that with such a lens and such a camera, the 50mm is unlikely to be needed. I would suggest instead the 75mm APO. It is more compact, a bit lighter and easier to focus/compose than the 90mm APO. Performance is very similar. 35/75 makes a more balanced combo than 35/90, and the quality of both allow you to crop in (35mm covers from 35mm-50mm, 75mm covers from 75mm-135mm). You can use the S120 or 180 for anything longer, and the S is much better for telephoto work anyway since it is easier to focus and compose on an SLR than a rangefinder at longer focal lengths.

If you are worried about 35mm not being wide enough, I would skip most of the super expensive Leica wides like the summiluxes etc, and just get one of the tiny Voigtlander 21mm lenses. You probably will not be using it all that much, so having something tiny gives you some security without having a big investment in cost or space/weight. If your budget is limitless, then the 21mm Super Elmar is a great choice as well, though obviously larger and heavier.

At least from my perspective, I think it is better to focus on what will be best to use, rather than what is the most extreme lens. It is a lot more fun to carrry an M11 with a 35mm APO all day than a M11 and a Noctilux (50, 75) or 90mm Summilux. Certainly there is no need for them in terms of lighting, as the M11M allow you to shoot in near complete darkness with an f2 lens. The only way I would recommend one of those lenses would be if you decided to leave the S at home, and wanted to be able to do shallow depth of field portraits with the M11M.

Edited February 6, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[evikne]

This looks very much like a luxury problem.

[Vanillasludge]

I would pack a bodyguard in my camera bag if I planned on rolling around with that much money in equipment.  
 

 

[amamoy2]

Everything will be insured.  Have traveled extensively and will of course try to stay out of any sketchy situations as best as possible.

[3D-Kraft.com]

For me, "full Leica S kit" leaves open which focal lengths and apertures are covered by it already. As this all must be carried and insured, I would avoid to take any focal lengths twice.

On the M, the 75/1.25 and 90/1.5 means already more than 2 kg glass (not to talk about the value), they are pretty close to each other and very hard to focus without EVF. So - if at all - I would decide for only one of them. Given the 60 MP of the M11(M), a photo shot with the 75 Noct cropped to the field of view of the 90/1.5 still leaves you about 42 MP and a similar ability to isolate subject/background blur capability.

For landscape and city, I personally like the 21mm very much. If carrying also a 50mm, the 21mm and a high resolution sensor would eliminate the need for a 35mm for me, but that may be a personal preference...

Edited February 6, 2024 by 3D-Kraft.com

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[amamoy2]

So my current S kit would be the 24, 45, and 120.  Wasn't going to bring the 70.

That would overlap w my 35 apo on the M (s 45) but if I did M 75 apo that would fit in between the S 45 and S 120.  I am trying to stay away from 4 S lenses.

Considering the recommendation for the m 21 SEM that would actually fit between the S 24 and 45 and give good landscape option for the M11M.