Super Elmar-M 18 f/3.8 ASPH. Vs…

[Ghiry6591]

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Maybe some of you can help me. I currently use an Elmarit R 19 2.8 II on an SL2-S body, with excellent results for photos of urban architecture and archaeological architecture, especially in B&W, even if the combo weighs quite a bit. However, the Leica M Super Elmar 18/3.8 seems equally good (perhaps even a bit better), less bulky and lighter. Have any of you ever compared the two lenses, or do you use the 18/3.8 with great satisfaction? Grazie per il vostro contributo 👋

[UliWer]

Since the Elmarit-R has almost one stop more than the Super-Elmar you should not exspect both offering equal resolution on the whole field of view. The MTF-graphs published in the Leica Pocket Book show that the Super-Elmar is considerably better - though I am a bit sceptical whether one really sees this on the results… 

The larger built of the Elmarit-R might be an advantage for using it with an SL. Very wide angles might cause problems for the camera‘s sensor as it is not specially „tweaked“ for M-lenses with their smaller diameter. So I‘d recommend to try the Super-Elmar first on your camera before getting it as a substitute for your Elmarit-R.

[fabior]

Even though I haven't used it for a long time I can say that it is a lens with a modern approach and a great sense of definition. I'm not using it because I currently prefer lenses with a more accentuated character such as the summilux 35 steel rim, the various noctilux, summilux 80R , 28mm M and of course the re-edition of the summaron 28mm. But it must be said that I am more attracted to portrait photos.

[fabior]

example with M10D and super elmar 18mm

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[fabior]

example with Leica SL type 601 and super elmar 18mm

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[fabior]

example with Leica SL type 601 and super elmar 18mm

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[Ghiry6591]

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Thanks UliWer and Fabior 👍👋

Edited January 6, 2024 by Ghiry6591

[UliWer]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb fabior:

example with Leica SL type 601 and super elmar 18mm

Can you show a picture with the SL and the 18mm Super-Elmar which has light and/or details at the edges? It could be interesting to know whether my assumption that the lenses wide angle and the SL sensor were no ideal partners was right or not. 

[fabior]

currently I can't find a good example to evaluate the resolution on the edges with the SL but looking at the mtf values there is certainly a drop in resolution at the edges. If I can I will try in the next few days to use it with my current SL2

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[darylgo]

The mtf curves are pretty good, wides are typically poorer in the corners.  Lloyd Chambers has a subscription website but you can see the image he publishes here from the SL2 and 18mm.   https://diglloyd.com/prem/s/LEICA/LeicaM/lens-Leica18f3_8-aseries-TenayaCanyonBowl.html

My experience is with Leica M bodies and the 18mm, the images were always impressive at every aperture setting.   

[Knightspirit]

I am looking to get one of these for my M11 - so thanks for the images!

[wlaidlaw]

My experience is that the 18mm SEM is a better performer on my SL601 than it is on my M10-R. Both are good but I think corner performance on the SL601 is better. This would not be a great surprise given the depth of the M to L adapter, which means that the light in the corner is hitting the same size sensor in each camera, at a less acute angle on the SL. Even so I have not really used my 18SEM enough over the 5 or 6 years I have had it to really justify its cost. I actually find 21mm is generally wide enough for my tastes and I use the excellent 21-35 Vario-Elmar-R on the SL and my M10-R, as well as on my various Leica R cameras. 

Wilson

[dpitt]

6 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

My experience is that the 18mm SEM is a better performer on my SL601 than it is on my M10-R. Both are good but I think corner performance on the SL601 is better. This would not be a great surprise given the depth of the M to L adapter, which means that the light in the corner is hitting the same size sensor in each camera, at a less acute angle on the SL. Even so I have not really used my 18SEM enough over the 5 or 6 years I have had it to really justify its cost. I actually find 21mm is generally wide enough for my tastes and I use the excellent 21-35 Vario-Elmar-R on the SL and my M10-R, as well as on my various Leica R cameras. 

Wilson

This is great. I am also a fan of the SL601, but the sensor distance with M-L adapter is exactly the same as with the M10R. It needs to be otherwise you can not reach infinity. So that can not be the technical reason of what you see in the results. Just like @UliWer stated, the SL is designed for primary use with larger wide lenses, while the M series needs to be designed to work with tiny lenses. They made an extra effort on the SL to work with M lenses, but I would be surprised by these results. Also it seems Leica designed the M-L adapter slightly short for technical reasons, so, if anything, the sensor distance will be smaller with adapter on the SL than with the M10.

Did you do a side by side comparison of the same subject shot with this lens? And you need to have enough light and detail in the corners to really compare.

OTOH, I think the shots you have shown from the SL are good. So I would expect the more modern ASPH design of the 18mm to yield more contrast and perhaps less distortion compared to the 19mm Elmarit R with a classic design. But in general, this can be easily corrected in PP and I tend to like the classic rendering more and they are more flexible to tweak results in post. I do not have the 18mm, but I have the 19mm Elmarit R v1 and a 21mm f/2.8 ASPH Elmarit-M to compare. This is very personal, so maybe the exact same differences will make you prefer the modern design.

[henning]

6 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

My experience is that the 18mm SEM is a better performer on my SL601 than it is on my M10-R. Both are good but I think corner performance on the SL601 is better. This would not be a great surprise given the depth of the M to L adapter, which means that the light in the corner is hitting the same size sensor in each camera, at a less acute angle on the SL. Even so I have not really used my 18SEM enough over the 5 or 6 years I have had it to really justify its cost. I actually find 21mm is generally wide enough for my tastes and I use the excellent 21-35 Vario-Elmar-R on the SL and my M10-R, as well as on my various Leica R cameras. 

Wilson

Actually, the light is hitting the sensor at exactly the same angle in each case, as the lens would not function otherwise. I am surprised though that you find the performance better on the SL than on the M10-R. The best that can usually be hoped for is that there is no worse performance on the SL (or other non-M cameras) than on the M, and that happens usually only with lenses longer than 50mm.

I don't have an 18mm SEM and have sold my 18 Distagon, so only have the WATE for 18mm at the moment. When I did try the SEM it was better than the WATE and the Distagon while the latter 2 were effectively equal for my purposes. In any case, the 18 SEM is an outstanding lens, and I'm sure is better than a strong retrofocus lens designed over 30 years ago.

[LocalHero1953]

Hijacking this thread, though my question may be relevant to the OP's interests as well. 

What is distortion like with the SEM 18mm or Elmarit-R 19mm? While Photoshop's Adaptive Wide Angle Filter works well in stills, I would like to use this focal length in video, where it is harder to correct, and I don't want people walking to the edge of the frame to look as if they are being dragged into a black hole.

Are there other 18mm lenses that minimise wide angle distortion?

[wlaidlaw]

The 18mm SEM has slightly lower distortion than the WATE I used to have and factionally less vignetting. OTOH, I now feel it is a somewhat less useful lens compared with the zoom lens WATE from 16 to 21mm, being much more flexible. As a result I don't use my SEM18 a great deal and I am considering part exchanging it for a WATE. The thing that put me off the WATE was the Frankenfinder, which of course is not required on an M10-R with live view. The Leica 18mm bright line finder is excellent but again not really needed with live view. 

Wilson

[LocalHero1953]

Having read a bit more round the subject and thought a bit more about the optics, I realise that some distortion is just a fact of life when shooting ultra wide angle at close distances - no lens will avoid it.