Should I sell my v4 KoB??

[streetpussy]

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Hey guys,

just here trying to get some second opinions. Okay so 4 years ago or so I got a version 4 king of bokeh for way too much money ($3,000). I’ve gotten lots of good photos with it but what bothers me so much is the fact that the square hood if slightly bumped will knock the whole front of the lens out of alignment. I am constantly babying it when in use and am scared to have it under my jacket…

recently got a version 3 35mm just CLA’d by YYE. It is in superb shape. I’ve just developed some rolls with it and I don’t know if it’s because the lighting situations were different in all the frames, but I feel like the v4 looks far superior to the v3?? I’m only shooting black and white on an m6 so the differences shouldn’t be super noticeable since they get lost in the grain but here we are…

I found a standup fella who wants to buy the v4 for $2500. I got the v3 for $1300 so I figure I’d pocket $1200 and still have a nice 35 lens.

is it foolish to keep both? I’d rather shoot one 35mm lens only and one 50mm lens only just so I can get used to the ergonomics and focus throws and know them well.

am I tripping or are the differences between the 3 and 4 that much different? I’ve heard that if the differences bother you a ton, you’re probably not a very good photographer to begin with, as all summicron lenses are fantastic. It just seems like the v4 has more contrast and “pop”. It could also be that I don’t use the hood on the v3 because the circle hood just introduces SO much size and makes me feel like I’m using an SLR. Dramatic, I know.

so yeah, sell the v4 or hold onto it? I wonder if they’re going to go up value or if there is gonna be a huge decline in popularity with all the crazy turmoil we’re about to face this next year..

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[mdg1371]

1. If you aren’t comfortable using a lens for fear of damaging it, and you aren’t a collector, my thought is get rid of it. 
 

2. There are absolutely differences between the 3 and 4. Whether the rendering is less or more appealing is subjective.

3. Introducing another possibility, for 2500, you can get a mint in box v1 ASPH- that would give you even more pop and contrast, and smoother bokeh ( again subjective as to value). You could then sell the v3 or keep it for its different rendering.

 

 

[dpitt]

I have the v3 version. Never had the v4.
The v3 is mostly used on digital, either my M9 or my TL2.

A 35mm is just a bit too wide for me on FF, so I like it more on the TL2. Contrast needs to be adjusted in PP, as usual for this generation of lenses.
My v3 has had a CLA  and performs like expected. I think it is on par with the 50mm Summicron v3. Both of them lower contrast than the later ASPH versions or the v4 and v5 for the 50mm. They are not bad, but I like the rendering of the Summicron 40 C a bit better. Maybe that is what you see as difference with the v4. IMO it is not a very large difference, at least not on digital and after PP.

Maybe you compared the v3 without sunhood with the v4 with sunhood? I started using the rubber sunhood of the 40C on the Summicron 35 v3. Maybe that helps for usablility and for contrast.

35cron v3 and v4 should be close, but the v4 probably has more 3D pop and 'Leica magic' and it probably has a better hood. Maybe try using a yellow filter for B&W?

The thing is, if you have an expensive item sitting on the shelf that you hesitate to use, it is not helping. The ASPH 35 would be more practical and give better contrast and sharpness overall.

[wda]

What was your intention when you decided to buy your version 3 having spent a lot on acquiring your v4?

[costa43]

I would take any good condition 35mm over one that gets knocked out of alignment so easily but I’m sure a CLA can sort the v4 out should you prefer the image quality from that lens. I would suggest holding out for a while longer to really decide whether the v3 is inferior before making your mind up. Once your v4 is cla’d. you will not have a problem selling it should you wish to.
 

FWIW - I do not shoot film but my preference is for the v2/v3/40mm summicrons on digital over the v4. They have a slightly grungier look that I find appealing. 

[hansvons]

I find sharpness crucial, especially when shooting on film. If I were to own one 35mm lens for my M6, it would be the Summicron ASPH v1 or it’s much cheaper but equally mighty Summarit sibling if budget would be the decisive factor.

The ASPH is sharper than the V4, has a similar flattering rendering of faces (on the flatter side), fine bokeh, and shows still a little bit of highlights glow when shot open. It’s as much Leica as any of its predecessors and was designed for film. Some people find it “clinical”, which I can relate to when used on a digital sensor because it’s really sharp to the corners at f2.8. But on film, it's stunningly good in many respects, even flares nicely when provoked. All that character talk makes somewhat sense for digital but on film rules are different and acutance, distinct focus etc are important for clarity. 

I’d sell both, the v3 and v4, get a pristine ASPH and don't look back. 

 

 

 

 

[rtai]

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If your v4 was made in Canada then getting $2500 for it is really good for you. I have never heard of the v4 getting out of alignment from the hood getting bumped. Problems develop when people unmount the lens by twisting on the rectangular hood. I’d say sell it and use the v3 for a while and if you don’t like it then buy something else. 

[rcusick]

I love my v4… sold it once and ended up repurchasing… just saying…

[a.noctilux]

@streetpussy

Good advices above.

My opinion as lover of the 35 Cron IV (still use two), I'd check if it's "made in Canada", sell it ...

if "Wetzlar" just use it happily with-no-fear and sell the "v III"

[RexGig0]

I possess no versions of any Leica 35mm Summicron, so, have no biases or prejudices regarding any of the versions. Based solely upon the apparent delicate condition of your Version IV/“K.O.B.,” in your typical usage conditions, I would think that I would rather have a sturdier 35mm lens, more suitable for street/field duty. 

 

 

 

 

[streetpussy]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions!

So, my v4 actually DOES work perfectly. When I bought it several years ago, it arrived with the front retainer ring way way out of alignment, causing the hood to sit at a 45 degree angle and the DOP scale basically useless. I sent it to DAG, and he lined everything up for $100 I think. I haven’t had it go out of alignment since, but Don gave me a warning that has always kinda stuck with me and been in the back of my mind. He said while the optics on the v4 are stellar, it is hands down the moat poorly built lens Leica ever made. I have the Canada version with has plastic parts (that doesn’t bother me a ton) and some of it is held together with glue (that bothers me.) He lined it up and said he glued the living hell out of it with the same stuff the Leica factory uses. Warned me to really be l conscious of this when shooting. Bumping the hood against something could cause the glue to dislodge and knock the ring out of alignment.. I would just use no hood in order to avoid this, but the lens flares so badly without the square hood, or so I’m told. Sucks because the ergonomics and the image are just stunning…

A while back I found a version 3 at a shop I picked up, but ended up returning it because after doing a flashlight test I found haze. So I ended up finding the cleanest one I’ve ever seen on eBay, just CLA’d by YYE late last year, for a super good deal so I had to grab it. Idea was to keep that, and sell the v4 and pocket $1200. I just got 60 rolls back from the lab, and scanned them all, and I can notice a difference between the v3 and v4. It could be in part because I use the hood with the v4 and haven’t used the hood for the v3 at all. The circle hoods get on my nerves terribly as they introduce so much size which is dumb but it is what it is. I had kind of figured that the version 3 wouldn’t even need a hood since the glass is so recessed in the barrel; shouldn’t the barrel almost act kind of like a lens hood? Also with the cutouts on the v3, sort of seems like it wouldn’t even help that much.

So I don’t know. I feel kind of foolish being stuff I’m not using. And I prefer to use the same lenses constantly (my 50mm Summicron and one 35mm Summicron. V3 and V4 have way different handling and focus throw so it’s better to get super used to one lens. My 50mm is a v3 and I love it and have never used a hood on it with great results.. maybe the negatives I got back with the version 3 were simply just user error which is why some of those negatives looked bad.

Like a couple people suggested, maybe I should just hold onto both of them. I can afford it for the time being. But at the end of the day, I feel like either the v3 or v4 should make me happy. Also for what it’s worth, I shoot hp5 exclusively, so I think a lot of the sharpness differences get lost in the grain.

I know the ASPH v1 is a great lens but it’s just too big for my liking.

but yeah, again, the v4 is fine as far as I know. Don lined it up and I’ve never mounted or dismounted the lens using the hood nor have I bumped the hood against anything…

PS. Recently got a rigid 50mm because this old guy sold it for $600 CLA’d because it has some cleaning marks on the coating. Tested it out, image quality is super good, and i can’t tell a difference really between the v3 50mm and rigid 50mm.

so yeah, maybe I’m overthinking the v3 vs v4 thing. Like I said before, I DO worry about leica prices dropping with all the terrible stuff going on in the world, but if I’m wrong, I could sell it down the road if I decide.

[rcusick]

The v4 is special because of size, color and subject fall off.  It is a vintage lens and shouldn’t be compared to any apsh summicron.  Those who do are missing the point. 
 

if you want modern and somewhat heavier (and better built) - go with the cron apsh.  
 

if you appreciate lightweight lenses - one consistent with barnaks original philosophy - and with a special signature - stay with the v4. 
 

if you want better build quality - buy a German made version and send to leica for a cla and 6 bit coding.  That lens will be worth $3500 to $4500 after the Leica cla.  

Edited January 2, 2024 by rcusick

[mediumformula]

I would just shoot the v4 and not worry about the front element.  Sounds like it has already been fixed and you're just worrying about it.  Also, try shooting it without the hood.  I don't think it flares that much, at least my copy does not.  I would only use the hood for landscape shots in which cases you're probably not going to be knocking it around in your jacket pocket, but it should be on a tripod.  Live on the edge, shoot your v4, and sell the v3, which you are clearly not connecting with.   

[IkarusJohn]

Yeah, sell it.

[LocalHero1953]

You're worrying about an issue that applies to all copies of this lens - it's nothing to do with yours specifically. So that is not a reason for selling it.

As for the v4 lens qualities: I had one for a couple of decades and it was a practical and useful tool that did an unassuming job well. It acquired a halo when someone gave it a silly nickname which stuck for those people who lack the judgement themselves to decide if it is worth having.

As for flare without the hood: just try it. Tell us, does it flare or not? I used it all the time without the hood - not even sure I had a hood. I can't remember if it flared a lot or not: maybe it didn't; maybe it did and I just learned to work with it. That's the joy of photography: you don't have to rely on strangers' opinions - you can try for yourself and form your own opinion. And then use its qualities in your own creative way.

Edited January 2, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[streetpussy]

You’re right. I should just stick with it. I’ve gotten such good results and I love the handling, why change it? And I guess if it does get bumped out of alignment, it’s only $100 or so to fix that. Maybe just keep the v3 as a backup for now which I can easily sell down the road. looks like it just came out of the box with the YYE paperwork. Thanks for all the insight! 🙏🏻

[hansvons]

49 minutes ago, streetpussy said:

You’re right. I should just stick with it. I’ve gotten such good results and I love the handling, why change it?

 

Good thinking. And try shooting without the hood. When you have these shots where a hood would make a difference you can use your hands to keep the lens clean. Or embrace the beautiful flares. At least that's what I do. 

9 hours ago, streetpussy said:

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions!

So, my v4 actually DOES work perfectly.

 

Tons of good thoughts here. But don't worry about Leica prices. When these went down due to a bad economy, all else would be in shambles and your least concern would be a 40-year-old lens.

[lebanese blonde]

If you happy and you know it keep your v4 😉 

It could make a difference using a round hood on your v4 instead of the square hood. 

You don‘t have any corners on the round hood that would transfer the force of bumping into something on your lens that heavily like the square hood does.

I‘m not a physicist but maybe this helps.

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[a.noctilux]

@streetpussy

I change my opinion concerning "Canada made" Cron IV.

Just use it without fear as is ...or without hood, round hood ...etc.

As this lens was broken ( possibility 100% while using) and repaired ( if future next break = $100, good news).

And when the lens is not available, you can use the version 3.

[cryamerica26]

  The v3 is mostly used on digital, either my M9 or my TL2.1. If you aren’t comfortable using a lens for fear of damaging it, and you aren’t a collector, my thought is get rid of it. 

2. There are absolutely differences between the 3 and 4. Whether the rendering is less or more appealing is subjective.

3. Introducing another possibility, for 2500, you can get a mint in box v1 ASPH- that would give you even more pop and contrast, and smoother bokeh ( again subjective as to value). You could then sell the v3 or keep it for its different rendering.

 

Bobby jack
https://www.cryamerica.org/