A 35mm companion to my Summilux 50 V2 from the 60s

[Almizilero]

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(If you aren't interested in the background palaver, skip to the bold part)

Hej guys, I need your input. I'm a relatively new M shooter and I`m still finding my footing regarding the focal lenghts I want to have. The M is my "fun" camera next to an SL2-S workhorse. Before, that spot was taken by the Q. I switched to the M10 for the manual experience and because the fixed 28mm wasn't for me. So I started on the M with 28 and 50. Noticed I mostly used the 28 during travels and had the 50 glued to the camera for the rest of the time. Also, as I travel with friends who aren't photographers, I didn't like changing lenses that much. So I sold the 28, got a TriElmar MATE, which is perfect for my traveling needs!

So I thought I was set with the TriElmar for travel and the Summilux for everything else. But when I looked at my pictures, I noticed something strange. Seems like I love 35mm. Didn't even expect to use that on the MATE between 28 and 50, but I use it A LOT. From the MATE, I got more 35mm keepers than 28 and 50 COMBINED. So I started looking for a dedicated 35. I ended up with a Summarit 35/2.4 which is absolutely fantastic on its own. But it has a very different look from my old Summilux.

 

So long story short, I'm looking for a 35mm M lens that is closer in character to my Summilux 50 V2 (11114) from ca. 1967. Probably I should just look at a 35 from that same era? I tried a Voigtländer Nokton 35/1.4 which seemed close enough, but sadly suffered from severe focus shift. So yeah, I'm open to non-Leica-glass, don't want to spend a fortune and usually buy used. Looking forward to your suggestions, ideally from people who own a 50 V2 and found their fitting 35 already. Thanks in advance!

Edited December 27, 2023 by Almizilero

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[UliWer]

Well, the obvious companion is the 35mm Summilux (pre asph). Though of course it doesn't qualify for you condition of not wanting to spend a fortune...

Though I don't quite understand what makes the decisive difference between the Summarit and the lens you are looking for.  

If you use the 50mm Summilux at f/2.8 and the 35mm Summarit at the same f-stop from the same position and crop the result from the Summarit to a 50mm field of view - do you really see any difference?

Edited December 27, 2023 by UliWer

[Almizilero]

I guess it's all a bit philosophical in the end. The Summarit, to me, is a rather modern lens. It's already pretty sharp wide open and has a modern rendering, also it's very flare resistant. Of course, it doesn't even offer a really fast aperture. The Summilux is sharp enough in the center wide open and falls of to the edges. It has a bit of a glow in the out of focus areas and has some flaring. This is still a bit present at 2.8, so I think it would be possible to make the destinction between the two at that aperture. At f/4, the Summilux behaves like any modern lens and is sharp all over.

So maybe I look for a less perfect lens than the Summarit? This sound a bit silly when I type it, but maybe that's just it. And maybe I just have to look at some faster glass, be it a Summilux (if there is one that doesn't break the bank) or a Zeiss/Voigtländer.

[a.noctilux]

Sorry I cannot help much.

You had done a quick&dirty part with MATE and Summarit-M 35mm.

I fear that what you are after (ideal companion to Summilux 50mm) as only one lens may not exist.

Anyway, 35mm lenses is kind of rabbit holes and nothing can replace own experiences, like you did with the two lenses.

I'd say the closest can be Summilux-M 35mm pre-asph. as UliWer said above, but the Summicron-M 35mm pre-asph. I/II/III/IV are not bad at all (I know what you mean)

 

Take time to find the right one.

 

 

[RexGig0]

If you liked your Voigtlander 35mm f/1.4, other than the focus shift, well, perhaps, try the Version II, which is said to have resolved the focus shift problem? I have not owned either version of the Voigtlander, but did test-shoot a few images with the Version II, at a coffee shop meet-up, last February.

Personally, I like to pair a 50mm lens, that has some amount of character, with a 35mm lens having a more modern rendering, as a nice travel combination, but I realize that I may be an outlier, in that regard.

Edited December 27, 2023 by RexGig0

[UliWer]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Almizilero:

The Summarit, to me, is a rather modern lens. It's already pretty sharp wide open and has a modern rendering, also it's very flare resistant. Of course, it doesn't even offer a really fast aperture. The Summilux is sharp enough in the center wide open and falls of to the edges. It has a bit of a glow in the out of focus areas and has some flaring. This is still a bit present at 2.8, so I think it would be possible to make the destinction between the two at that aperture. At f/4, the Summilux behaves like any modern lens and is sharp all over.

That's how I'd describe both lenses as well - but did you actually look at an exact comparison to find out whether you can see what you describe? (Btw: you hardly will see flare with a 50mm Summilux. That's the big difference to a 35mm Summilux).

[sometimesmaybe]

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On 12/27/2023 at 11:05 PM, Almizilero said:

Voigtländer Nokton 35/1.4 which seemed close enough, but sadly suffered from severe focus shift

as @RexGig0 suggests have a look at the v2 Nokton, but grab the single coated version. v2 was updated to correct the focus shift issue. have a look at the comparison between v1 and v2

https://www.47-degree.com/focus-shift/nokton-classic-35mm-14-comparison

[Almizilero]

Thanks guys, I actually had a copy of the V2 Nokton. Maybe I had a bad copy, but the results were terrible (before I tried this lens I didn't even know what focus shift is since I never encountered it). I might give it another try with a new copy since general censensus seems to be that it shouldn't be this noticeable with V2 anymore. 

[hansvons]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:01 PM, Almizilero said:

So maybe I look for a less perfect lens than the Summarit? This sound a bit silly when I type it, but maybe that's just it. And maybe I just have to look at some faster glass, be it a Summilux (if there is one that doesn't break the bank) or a Zeiss/Voigtländer.

I have owned the Summarit for a few days and have already shot two rolls on it. Long story short: it's a fabulous lens that works well as a workhorse lens. I also own the 35mm Summicron ASPH. Both are very similar. 

However, I also use the Nokton 35mm 1,4 SC Version 2 regularly with much confidence because its character is very different from the above-mentioned Summarit and Summicron, working nicely on moody backlit people shots, B&W and colour film. It's basically a Leica Steel Rim copy with all the quirks and good things that come with that vintage Double Gausss design of the 60ies. It cost 650 euros new and is for what is it is a no-brainer. Highly recommended!!

[Alberti]

I have that 50mm version II. And it is uncoded. So I set my body to the Lux II.

And then I use my 35mm summicron type IV. Also uncoded. And I forget to change codes in the menu. Of course it shows up id's as a 50mm shot.

NOW . .

can I pick out the 35 shots? Even wide-open it is not so simple to see and pick them (mostly guess the angle of view. . ) Of course on some shots I see the butterfly light spots wide open, but in fact this is seldom to appear in the compo.

SO . .

that leads me thinking the 35mm summicron type IV [Or the New Steel Rimmed] might indeed be a match to the 50mm  lux/2. In style, quality, result (sharpness, color, liveliness). Two pictures to show off the 35mm, first listening to Santa:

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and in a display:

Look at that color from a coffee can (M10-R)

Edited December 29, 2023 by Alberti

[Almizilero]

Those pictures are great! But all the King of Bokeh hype has pushed this lens out of my preferred price range. I have my eye on the Summicron 35 V2 (6 element), which seems to be only about half the price of the V4. Are they that much worse?

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, Almizilero said:

Are they that much worse?

As user, sometimes I prefer the Summicron  35 I or II over the hyped IV.

No Summicron 35mm is worse, just taste of user.

In built quality, the "II" is  much better built than "IV".

Be quick because this II/III will climp in price, now it's just right at half of the "IV" and much cheaper than "I".

a link for opinions

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by a.noctilux

[Pyrogallol]

Summaron 35mm f2.8

[costa43]

Have you considered the 35mm Nokton version ii? Whilst not eliminating it completely, It does a lot better with focus shift and in real world use fairs very well.

[rcusick]

8 hours ago, Alberti said:

I have that 50mm version II. And it is uncoded. So I set my body to the Lux II.

And then I use my 35mm summicron type IV. Also uncoded. And I forget to change codes in the menu. Of course it shows up id's as a 50mm shot.

NOW . .

can I pick out the 35 shots? Even wide-open it is not so simple to see and pick them (mostly guess the angle of view. . ) Of course on some shots I see the butterfly light spots wide open, but in fact this is seldom to appear in the compo.

SO . .

that leads me thinking the 35mm summicron type IV [Or the New Steel Rimmed] might indeed be a match to the 50mm  lux/2. In style, quality, result (sharpness, color, liveliness). Two pictures to show off the 35mm, first listening to Santa:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

and in a display:

Look at that color from a coffee can (M10-R)

The colors on the type iv are wonderful.  Very much like r lens colors that are so in vogue  with videographers right now. 

[Almizilero]

Thanks for all the input! For now, I found my lens, even though it is not what I was looking for when I started.
I tested:
(SUR) Summarit 35/2.4 (the one I started with)
(SU6) old Summicron 6-element
(SUA) newish Summicron V5 (ASPH)
I wanted to include a Voigtländer Ultron, but that got lost in the mail so I decided the fates didn't want me to have it 😂

The findings from my copies:
Closest to my 50 Summilux V2 was the SU6. Wide open it has a similar glow as the 50, but more pronounced blurry edges. Stopping down to 2.8 it clears up nicely, from F/4 it's sharp all over. Sadly, the lens wasn't in great shape, the aperture clicks were barely perceptible and the focus very stiff. I also encountered some focus shift with this otherwise lovely lens.

The SUR is a very modern looking lens with no real flaws. It's sharp wide open and in the extremest corners it's even better than the SUA (wide open). In direct comparison, to the other two, I found the colours a bit of at times, but this was in most part caused by a different white balance. Maybe the SUR doesn't work as good with Auto WB as the other two.

The overall winner in image quality terms would be the SUA for me. Very sharp overall, the minimally blurry corners wide open disappear at F2.8. Contrast and colours are outstanding and beat the other two (if only in direct comparison). This is the lens with the most punch and pop in the unedited DNGs. Wide open, the bokeh is a bit irritating. Hard to explain, but the background looks like I shook the camera during exposure, while the motiv is sharp. This goes away at F/2.8 as well.

So, while I was actually looking for something closer in IQ to my 50, I decided to keep the SUA for now. The images just stood out to me a little bit when browsing through them. It's not really the companion I was looking for, but since I like the output very much, I think I'll be happy with it anyway. I already feel the urge to use it properly, something that didn't really occur with the SUR. But also, the price is a point. I got the SUA at price where I hope to be able to sell it without much loss if I find a something closer to my old 50.