50mm Summilux ASPH ver1 vs Summicron ver5

[julian79]

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Hey all,
hope you are doing well.

Just picked up a used 50mm Lux ASPH version 1.
Lens is in a great condition, handles well maybe apart from the aperture clicks not being super pronounced like I am used to. 

One thing I have noticed is the purple and green fringing in both out of focus and in focus areas. 
Is this normal for this lens at 1.4 or could my copy be a bit off? I am still able to send it back and am undecided.

For comparison left is Lux f1.4 right is Cron at f2, focus is on the net.
Not super bothered but I heard it is supposed to be the same technology as APO and am surprised there is so much fringing.

 

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[muskyvibes]

27 minutes ago, julian79 said:

Cron v5

Best 50 ever made. Period. I’ll never sell it. For me there’s no need for any other 50. 
 

 

Maybe I would get rid of the Lux and have the v5 for every day, and for a super fast 50 I would get the Voigtlander 50f1.0. By f2 any fringing is gone, and it’s a lot more bokehlicious. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by muskyvibes

[michael_b]

This effect is not caused by the lens itself. It is called Moiré. The sensor in the camera doesn‘t have an anti-aliasing filter to get sharper images. If you photograph structures with a pattern, like a fine mesh in this case, this can cause the color fringing, as the sensor also has a structured pattern (in general Bayer pattern) in front of the black and white sensor to get the color information. If the lens is sharper in the focused area, the Moiré can be stronger.

Edited December 18, 2023 by michael_b

[muskyvibes]

8 minutes ago, michael_b said:

This effect is not caused by the lens. It is called Moiré.

I see what he’s talking about here in the areas of high contrast. The aberrations on the Lux aren’t present on the Cron. 

I could do it with the Cron but it would have to be wide open in an extreme situation. 

I guess in this example it isn’t too much and maybe he can work on that in Lightroom. 

[julian79]

35 minutes ago, michael_b said:

This effect is not caused by the lens itself. It is called Moiré. The sensor in the camera doesn‘t have an anti-aliasing filter to get sharper images. If you photograph structures with a pattern, like a fine mesh in this case, this can cause the color fringing, as the sensor also has a structured pattern (in general Bayer pattern) in front of the black and white sensor to get the color information. If the lens is sharper in the focused area, the Moiré can be stronger.

Hey thanks for the feedback and agreed that Moiré is a thing but here it looks more of a typical purple fringe. I guess if you were to compare the cap Lux vs Cron it is apparent this is not a Moiré. 

[julian79]

45 minutes ago, muskyvibes said:

Best 50 ever made. Period. I’ll never sell it. For me there’s no need for any other 50. 
 

 

Maybe I would get rid of the Lux and have the v5 for every day, and for a super fast 50 I would get the Voigtlander 50f1.0. By f2 any fringing is gone, and it’s a lot more bokehlicious. 

Hey thanks. Yes Cron is super nice but this magical rendering on Lux is what is drawing me to it. I had Voigtlander 40mm 1.2 and that is one nice piece of lens ❤️ 

[dpitt]

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This is typical. The Lux is not as accurate and well behaved as the Summicron is, but that is part of the fun of the Summilux.

For me comparing both at F2 is more relevant. The Summilux should get closer, but will still have a different character. Partly because it is a ASPH and the Summicron is not. And partly because it is a Summilux.

If you want to see both at peak performance, then compare at F4 or F5.6.

There will be some difference at all F stops, because even the way DOF behaves will be different. The same F stop will seem to have shallower DOF on the ASPH lens. Sometimes this is good and other times you just want a larger area of transition between tack sharp and soft, like the Summicron renders it.

Edited December 18, 2023 by dpitt

[Jeff S]

There are many threads comparing these 2 lenses, and loads more discussing each individually.
 

One recurring concern regarding the Summicron v.5 is the care one must exercise to control flare; otherwise it has broad support.  I’ve owned both, but moved to the Summilux ASPH v.1 long ago and haven’t looked back.  I prefer its flexibility (Summicron sucks at f/1.4), ergonomics (including focus tab) and rendering characteristics.  It’s a favorite.

The aperture clicks can be improved to a degree by Leica or by competent third party service (like DAG in the US).

Jeff

[RexGig0]

If one works at it, just about any lens can be “set-up” to fail. None are totally perfect. I have both a Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, and a Summicron-M 50mm Version V. Each has its strengths. I am keeping them.

Longer version:

A Summilux-M 50mm ASPH was my first Leica M lens, THE reason that I added the Leica M system, in April 2018. I had been pursuing “perfect” DSLR lenses since 2010, to capture scientifically-perfect images. Flawless evidentiary/forensic/crime scene images while on duty, as a first responder, and flawless images of birds, wildlife, and general nature during personal time. The perfectly imperfect Summilux was the ANTIDOTE that I needed, after I retired, to attempt to re-learn how to like photographing people.

Subscribing to the concept that one can never have too many Leica M Fifties, I added a Summicron-M Version V, mostly for its lower profile and slightly smaller size, and different character, but also for shooting at the apertures at which the Summilux is known to produce the jagged-edge out-of-focus highlights. I then added a collapsible Elmar-M f/2.8, the most-modern of that line, in the sturdier chromed-brass version, for the times that maximum compactness is needed. Then, for a different, vintage rendering, on a budget, I acquired a Skyllaney-converted, rangefinder-coupled Summicron-R 50mm Version I. (I am not wealthy enough to have paid new prices, so, acquired each of these pre-owned.)

Finally, because all Leica M Fifties, even the APO Summicron ASPH, will flare, in some conditions, and because so many social gatherings, in Texas, occur on bright, sunny days, among the broken shade of Live Oaks and other trees, I bought a new Cosina Voigtlander 50mm APO Lanthar. One cannot always choose the best angle or direction of light, in such circumstances.

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by RexGig0

[julian79]

4 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

If one works at it, just about any lens can be “set-up” to fail. None are totally perfect. I have both a Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, and a Summicron-M 50mm Version V. Each has its strengths. I am keeping them.

Longer version:

A Summilux-M 50mm ASPH was my first Leica M lens, THE reason that I added the Leica M system, in April 2018. I had been pursuing “perfect” DSLR lenses since 2010, to capture scientifically-perfect images. Flawless evidentiary/forensic/crime scene images while on duty, as a first responder, and flawless images of birds, wildlife, and general nature during personal time. The perfectly imperfect Summilux was the ANTIDOTE that I needed, after I retired, to attempt to re-learn how to like photographing people.

Subscribing to the concept that one can never have too many Leica M Fifties, I added a Summicron-M Version V, mostly for its lower profile and slightly smaller size, and different character, but also for shooting at the apertures at which the Summilux is known to produce the jagged-edge out-of-focus highlights. I then added a collapsible Elmar-M f/2.8, the most-modern of that line, in the sturdier chromed-brass version, for the times that maximum compactness is needed. Then, for a different, vintage rendering, on a budget, I acquired a Skyllaney-converted, rangefinder-coupled Summicron-R 50mm Version I. (I am not wealthy enough to have paid new prices, so, acquired each of these pre-owned.)

Finally, because all Leica M Fifties, even the APO Summicron ASPH, will flare, in some conditions, and because so many social gatherings, in Texas, occur on bright, sunny days, among the broken shade of Live Oaks and other trees, I bought a new Cosina Voigtlander 50mm APO Lanthar. One cannot always choose the best angle or direction of light, in such circumstances.

 

Thank you for such a nice peek into your photographic journey. Summicron has a great size/weight to quality ratio for me. 

[Jeff S]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:18 AM, RexGig0 said:

Finally, because all Leica M Fifties, even the APO Summicron ASPH, will flare, in some conditions, and because so many social gatherings, in Texas, occur on bright, sunny days, among the broken shade of Live Oaks and other trees, I bought a new Cosina Voigtlander 50mm APO Lanthar. One cannot always choose the best angle or direction of light, in such circumstances.

 

Yes, all lenses can flare under certain conditions. But the 50 (and especially the 35) Summarit M lenses are reportedly less prone to flare than their counterparts.  Erwin Puts attributed this quality in part due to internal blackening, as I recall. Some related discussion…

Jeff

[insomnia]

For the next comparison I'd make sure both exposure and focus are comparable