Front Focusing: Fix it myself?

[AceVentura1986]

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Hello, all. I just took delivery of an M10M in fairly good condition from a reputable dealer. Unfortunately, it is distinctly front-focusing by about 4 inches at 6 feet and f/2. Is this something I can fix on my own adjusting the cam just behind the lens and under the lens mount? If so, are there any pointers anyone would care to give me?

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[pippy]

Do you have more than one lens which you can use to confirm this theory?

P.

 

[jaapv]

You have to search for it I fear but there is a long and informative thread on this forum with complete instructions.

[AceVentura1986]

43 minutes ago, pippy said:

Do you have more than one lens which you can use to confirm this theory?

P.

 

I’ve confirmed it by mounting the same lens on my M9M and finding that it works perfectly on that camera. 

[pippy]

Cheers.

If you wish to adjust the cam on the body then, from memory, you use a 2mm(?*) Allen Key and, whilst supporting the cam with the finger of one hand, put the key into the socket and turn the thing to adjust lens/body focus calibration accuracy. Bear in mind that even as little as a 1 degree change will make a significant difference so general rule-of-thumb is changes should always be in small increments and checked immediately. If you go too far then it will be fairly obvious and you can simply back-track.

It's very easy to do this adjustment in physical terms but you do have to be absolutely sure that the lens used to confirm fine-focus is also itself properly calibrated otherwise things can go downhill very rapidly. Don't ask me how I know this......

Best of luck!

Philip.

* Possibly 1.5mm? I will confirm Allen key size in the morning...

Edited December 14, 2023 by pippy

[AceVentura1986]

10 hours ago, pippy said:

Cheers.

If you wish to adjust the cam on the body then, from memory, you use a 2mm(?*) Allen Key and, whilst supporting the cam with the finger of one hand, put the key into the socket and turn the thing to adjust lens/body focus calibration accuracy. Bear in mind that even as little as a 1 degree change will make a significant difference so general rule-of-thumb is changes should always be in small increments and checked immediately. If you go too far then it will be fairly obvious and you can simply back-track.

It's very easy to do this adjustment in physical terms but you do have to be absolutely sure that the lens used to confirm fine-focus is also itself properly calibrated otherwise things can go downhill very rapidly. Don't ask me how I know this......

Best of luck!

Philip.

* Possibly 1.5mm? I will confirm Allen key size in the morning...

Thanks. 

[pippy]

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Hi Ace.

Having just checked it is a 2mm Allen Key. If it might be of help (I trust I got it right!) here's what I wrote on the piece of card onto which I taped the key for safe-keeping;

"With the camera upside down when the cam (key) is turned clockwise the focus-point moves rearwards".

Best of good fortune!

Philip.

Edited December 14, 2023 by pippy

[charlesphoto99]

15 hours ago, AceVentura1986 said:

Hello, all. I just took delivery of an M10M in fairly good condition from a reputable dealer. Unfortunately, it is distinctly front-focusing by about 4 inches at 6 feet and f/2. Is this something I can fix on my own adjusting the cam just behind the lens and under the lens mount? If so, are there any pointers anyone would care to give me?

Is it hitting infinity okay (the patch in the vf)? If so, then it's a different adjustment needed than the hex on the roller. The two work in tandem and can be finicky and need to be adjusted together. But all that info can be found, but probably best to search for it in context of the M9. 

[AceVentura1986]

I was going to attempt a fix, but also figured that would void the (very) limited warranty from the seller so I just returned it instead. Luckily, the seller had another in stock that it rated at 9+, just a bit higher than the one I returned. I should get it on Tuesday or Wednesday, so, we’ll see. 

[ramarren]

When i bought my M10-R, the focus calibration and collimation were out. I sent it back to the dealer, and he sent it to Leica for adjustment. No cost to me, and Leica did a perfect job. 

I'm a photographer, not a camera tech, so I have camera techs work on my cameras.

G

[pippy]

5 hours ago, ramarren said:

...I'm a photographer, not a camera tech, so I have camera techs work on my cameras. ...

Fair point, Ramarren, but even although I'm a Photographer and not a Chef I have no qualms about cooking meals for myself...

😸

Philip.

[kevinjoe]

Pics for reference if it helps anyone.  I've been shooting M's for a long time and I got tired of dealing with minor misalignments, and Leica's turnaround times, for me at least, have been so long for even simple fixes, I decided I have to be able to adjust these myself if I'm going to continue to shoot rangefinders all the time (and I've owned them long enough that they're no longer under warranty and I am willing to risk it).  Everyone is always talking about adjusting for front of back focus, so the first pic for horizontal adjustment does that.  However, vertical adjustment of the patch is pretty useful too.  It really makes the image pop better when it's spot on and makes focusing faster.  The directions are if your staring at the camera as shown.  These are pics I keep in my notes for my personal reference. Note, if you're adjusting the cam, hold the hex key with two hands so that one hand is lined up under the cam so it directs the force to be rotational and not also pushing the cam.  If you're adjusting vertical alignment, the note about the screw is to get the screw off the front so you can access the hex screw underneath (assuming you have a P or Monochrom).  I would advise putting a pice of tape or something on the screw to protect it before you take a screw driver to it to get it off since it's easy to scratch. Also, when adjusting vertical alignment, draw a horizontal line on your computer screen with shift-hyphen. . .  then look at that through the rangefinder.. . .even a hair off makes a huge difference.  Then focus on the same line with your camera rotated 90 degrees and, as you focus, if perfect the tips of the two lines will be exactly the same length as they overlap.  Use these at your own risk! 

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[ramarren]

9 hours ago, pippy said:

Fair point, Ramarren, but even although I'm a Photographer and not a Chef I have no qualms about cooking meals for myself...

😸

Philip.

Amusing but a little disingenuous. There's a world of difference between knowing how to cook a meal and knowing how to adjust or repair a camera.

G

[pippy]

5 hours ago, ramarren said:

Amusing but a little disingenuous. There's a world of difference between knowing how to cook a meal and knowing how to adjust or repair a camera.

The question of "adjust or repair" comes down to a matter of degrees of difficulty.

I wouldn't dream of stripping-down / rebuilding, for instance, the shutter mechanism of an M simply because I don't know how to do it nor, I suspect, do I have the tools to do so. Other tasks, on the other hand, I do feel perfectly capable of completing properly myself. For me the focus-cam adjustment rests quite happily in the latter category.

Philip.

[AceVentura1986]

Thank you, all. I actually ended up returning the camera in exchange for another M10M. This second camera was rated by the store as slightly higher than the one I returned at 9+. Although the second camera also came with a slightly higher price, the store exchanged it for no additional charge so in the end this actually worked out for me. 

 In the future once this camera is out of warranty I am going to learn how to adjust the rangefinder. It’s minor maintenance and will avoid my being without a camera for several months, as tends to be the case w Leica NJ. 

[ramarren]

Hmm. "Several months" seems a lot longer for a minor service than I'm familiar with. The M10-R RF collimation/calibration took 4-5 weeks, including sending it to the dealer, then on to Leica, then back to the dealer, and on to me. But, eh, if I really can't be without a particular camera for some reason, that's justification to need to buy two of them.

G

[Tor-B]

To anyone hesitant to do this themselves. Don't be. 

Its super easy to do, and less fiddley then insert a roll of 35 mm film in a camera. 

I had zero knowledge in how to adjust the camera, and i just googled it and tried it with my newly bought M10M.
Took me 4 go, and i now have perfect calibrated camera. Just like my M10 and my m9. 


 

Edited January 13, 2024 by Tor-B

[AceVentura1986]

On 1/13/2024 at 9:55 AM, Tor-B said:

To anyone hesitant to do this themselves. Don't be. 

Its super easy to do, and less fiddley then insert a roll of 35 mm film in a camera. 

I had zero knowledge in how to adjust the camera, and i just googled it and tried it with my newly bought M10M.
Took me 4 go, and i now have perfect calibrated camera. Just like my M10 and my m9. 


 

Thanks for the insight. 

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[jaapv]

Mostly correct here as the most common adjustment error is the infinity roller ,followed by the vertical adjustmen; If close focus is off one needs to adjust the screw deeper inside but that is not very common. There is a fourth adjustment to the curve by bending the arm but that should only be done by an expert. Third party repair shops should be able to adjust a camera within a few days, sometimes whilst you wait. The turnaround times by Leica are far too long. 
The best thing to do is to send all lenses and bodies in to a trusted repair shop and have everything adjusted to the common standard. 

[AceVentura1986]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Mostly correct here as the most common adjustment error is the infinity roller ,followed by the vertical adjustmen; If close focus is off one needs to adjust the screw deeper inside but that is not very common. There is a fourth adjustment to the curve by bending the arm but that should only be done by an expert. Third party repair shops should be able to adjust a camera within a few days, sometimes whilst you wait. The turnaround times by Leica are far too long. 
The best thing to do is to send all lenses and bodies in to a trusted repair shop and have everything adjusted to the common standard. 

Thanks for the insight. I’ve thought about sending all my lenses and cameras for common calibration before. Might yet do it.