35 Summicron v4 Prices

[venom]

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I’ve been on the lookout for a good v4 made in Germany 35 Summicron for a while. There is one in absolute new mint condition being sold with the hood for around $3,500. Is this the going price for one of these? Seems quite steep. At this point you might as well get a brand new ASPH. 

[mediumformula]

For reference I paid $2,500 for a near mint condition German v4 with hood and 6-bit coding earlier this year.  Feel like I got a good deal but if you are patient and keep your eyes out you can probably find one for under $3500.  I'm very happy with the lens. It is so compact. 

[otto.f]

It’s the compactness indeed and the ASPH  is not too heavy with the same size but considered by many as a bit dull. And the Ultron ii is actually better with the same classic images but it has the irritant big hood, which is a dealbreaker for me. The V4 is among the very few Leica lenses which enables you to wear your M in the inside-pocket of your denim jacket. There are three under 2800€ on eBay now, the cheapest being 1750€, which doesn’t look bad. You better hurry, or I’ll give in to my GAS. 
There’s a new hype now about the version 2, the 8 elements, and this lens is often even more expensive. I cannot see that value in it. But the Summaron 35/2.8 however is sharper, has a smoother bo-keh and has reasonable prices. It’s also more sturdy. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by otto.f

[Stef63]

To me, the cost of this lens has become exorbitant lately. Twelve years ago, I purchased a pristine 1993 German chrome version with all its accessories for €1600. However, I wouldn't consider it worth €3500 today, nor would I buy it at that price. While it's a good lens, its acclaim, particularly as "the king of bokeh," is exaggerated. Although the bokeh is pleasant, 35 mm isn't typically the go-to focal length for impactful out-of-focus shots.

I'm also puzzled by the preference for the German version over the Canadian one, especially since the latter appears to be more affordable. If the goal is to maintain the lens's value for future resale at a higher price, the German version might make sense. But if you plan to use the lens actively, the Canadian version could be a better choice, as it might be cheaper. 

Additionally, it's advisable to look for a model that includes the 12524 hood and the 14043 matching cap. The latter is sold-out nowadays and if you lose it, a replacement is nowhere to find any more at an acceptable price.  Own experience 😒.  I recently saw a 14043 on eBay for around €350 (for a piece of plastic).

Edited December 2, 2023 by Stef63

[RMF]

The CAD version has the plastic parts inside while the later German versions are metal. As long as one is careful how they mount (and dismount) then lens either are fine but IMHO the German ones will always retain a higher value (as they are newer as well). Prices are what they are and are relative to the buyer, I doubt we’ll see them going down much, and they aren’t making any new ones. The really minty German ones are also becoming increasingly harder to find too.

 

 

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Edited December 2, 2023 by RMF

[Stef63]

4 hours ago, RMF said:

The CAD version has the plastic parts inside while the later German versions are metal.

You seem certain about this, but I couldn't find any information on differences between the Midlands Canada and German versions of this lens, other than the engraving, when I was researching before my purchase.  This was however more than a decade ago.  Could you eventually provide an article link to support this?  Thx !

One advantage is indeed - but again this will only affect resale price - that the German versions are more recent.

[rcusick]

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I just paid $2700 for a late German version.  I sent it to Leica for a cla and 6 bit coding for $700.  Hope that helps. 

[RMF]

4 hours ago, Stef63 said:

You seem certain about this, but I couldn't find any information on differences between the Midlands Canada and German versions of this lens, other than the engraving, when I was researching before my purchase.  This was however more than a decade ago.  Could you eventually provide an article link to support this?  Thx !

One advantage is indeed - but again this will only affect resale price - that the German versions are more recent.

@Stef63 Search works great on the forum as does chatGPT/Edge chatGPT. Here are a couple quick hits but there are a lot more…and even a tear down of the insides comparing them and their respected parts. 
 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/381929-summicron-35-v4-aka-king-of-bokeh-black-2600-usd-a-good-deal/#comment-4856198

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314015-battle-of-the-35-summicrons-which-is-the-real-king/page/2/#comment-4059342

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by RMF

[venom]

13 hours ago, Stef63 said:

I'm also puzzled by the preference for the German version over the Canadian one

This issue (pictured here) is the disease from the Canadian ones using plastic parts  

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by venom

[venom]

3 hours ago, rcusick said:

I just paid $2700 for a late German version.  I sent it to Leica for a cla and 6 bit coding for $700.  Hope that helps. 

Hmm. So I guess not too bad in brand new condition hood included. Thanks. 

[M.RB]

9 hours ago, RMF said:

The CAD version has the plastic parts inside while the later German versions are metal. As long as one is careful how they mount (and dismount) then lens either are fine but IMHO the German ones will always retain a higher value (as they are newer as well). Prices are what they are and are relative to the buyer, I doubt we’ll see them going down much, and they aren’t making any new ones. The really minty German ones are also becoming increasingly harder to find too.

 

 

.

I don't agree with this either. I think they all have plastic inside supporting the aperture ring. Same lens, just assembled in different places. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by M.RB

[Stef63]

4 hours ago, RMF said:

@Stef63 Search works great on the forum as does chatGPT/Edge chatGPT. Here are a couple quick hits but there are a lot more…and even a tear down of the insides comparing them and their respected parts. 

These are opinions from forum users. Using the same search, I can find just as many opinions claiming that the Canadian version is exactly the same as the German one. It appears that these differing opinions are what's driving the price differences between the two.  BTW : ChatGPT is a language model based on statistical analysis, not a tool for factual research. If for example 51% of online opinions suggest that the Canadian version contains plastic elements unlike the German one, then ChatGPT will very assertively  state that this is the fact. 

It's a common occurrence in markets where limited availability leads to the creation of a mythical status for products that were never intended for such. People then look for reasons, such as an engraving or the alleged inferior quality of a plastic component, to justify the price disparity.  

My recommendation to the OP is as follows: If your primary goal is to use this lens, then opting for the Canadian version could be a good choice. However, if you're also concerned about its resale value, then considering the German version might be the smarter move.

P.S.: The message above was edited by ChatGPT for better English clarity, as English is not my first language 😇

[venom]

3 hours ago, Stef63 said:

These are opinions from forum users. Using the same search, I can find just as many opinions claiming that the Canadian version is exactly the same as the German one. It appears that these differing opinions are what's driving the price differences between the two.  BTW : ChatGPT is a language model based on statistical analysis, not a tool for factual research. If for example 51% of online opinions suggest that the Canadian version contains plastic elements unlike the German one, then ChatGPT will very assertively  state that this is the fact. 

It's a common occurrence in markets where limited availability leads to the creation of a mythical status for products that were never intended for such. People then look for reasons, such as an engraving or the alleged inferior quality of a plastic component, to justify the price disparity.  

My recommendation to the OP is as follows: If your primary goal is to use this lens, then opting for the Canadian version could be a good choice. However, if you're also concerned about its resale value, then considering the German version might be the smarter move.

P.S.: The message above was edited by ChatGPT for better English clarity, as English is not my first language 😇

So you’re saying that the loose front element section is an issue with both the Canadian and the German versions? Because i Consistently see it with the Canadian versions. 

[Stef63]

I reviewed my message and didn't find any mention of the German model having problems with its front element loosening.  However, if your experience shows that many Canadian 35 Cron v4 lenses, as opposed to many German ones, have this issue, then you would need a statistically significant number of samples to make this statement.  

For what it is worth : I came across another statement that during its production cycle, the internal mechanical design (not the optical design) of the Canadian version was altered, and this modification occurred at time well before the lens assembly was shifted to Germany.  What the modification exactly was and what the reason for it was is unclear. This suggests the possibility of only one German version and two distinct Canadian versions. However, it's important to remember that this information, coming from an online source, may not necessarily be accurate.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Stef63

[venom]

1 hour ago, Stef63 said:

I reviewed my message and didn't find any mention of the German model having problems with its front element loosening.  However, if your experience shows that many Canadian 35 Cron v4 lenses, as opposed to many German ones, have this issue, then you would need a statistically significant number of samples to make this statement.  

For what it is worth : I came across another statement that during its production cycle, the internal mechanical design (not the optical design) of the Canadian version was altered, and this modification occurred at time well before the lens assembly was shifted to Germany.  What the modification exactly was and what the reason for it was is unclear. This suggests the possibility of only one German version and two distinct Canadian versions. However, it's important to remember that this information, coming from an online source, may not necessarily be accurate.

I would personally just opt for the German version. 

[a.noctilux]

As I wrote so often about this lens.

The only way to buy for use is weighting the lens.

I have two after selling/using about one dozen.

Canada made with composit components which can break in use weight is 135g.

Germany made with replaced metallic over composite parts weight 155g.

So the 20g in my experience with one lens years ago front lens "twisted" (Canada made) and needed some repair/relub, but not broken.

Over years, I sold about 850 to 1300 EUR each, maybe nine or ten lenses, I don't remember.

 

[RMF]

53 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

As I wrote so often about this lens.

The only way to buy for use is weighting the lens.

I have two after selling/using about one dozen.

Canada made with composit components which can break in use weight is 135g.

Germany made with replaced metallic over composite parts weight 155g.

So the 20g in my experience with one lens years ago front lens "twisted" (Canada made) and needed some repair/relub, but not broken.

Over years, I sold about 850 to 1300 EUR each, maybe nine or ten lenses, I don't remember.

 

Yup, by weight; my ‘late in the v4 lifecycle’ German version at 156g. 

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Edited December 3, 2023 by RMF

[la1402]

The only reason to get this lens is the size, but 3500$ is way too much.

[archive_all]

18 hours ago, M.RB said:

I don't agree with this either. I think they all have plastic inside supporting the aperture ring. Same lens, just assembled in different places. 

Actually my early Canadian V4 was refused for a CLA by Sherry Krauter years ago and she simply said "too weak to risk disassembly". She asked for the serial number before telling me that so there are some differences over the years they were produced. The front element retainer is visibly different on the German ones too.

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