Does bokeh matter?

[Ecar]

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I can see how this software feature might be useful to professional photographers and/or to small-sensor phone users. Fortunately, and although I'm quite happy to share pictures, I have the leisure of needing to please only myself. This involves using a proper camera with a proper lens, getting "it" right at the time of capture and spending as little time as possible in PP. I can't see myself spending hours trying to decide what type of bokeh is the most appropriate for a given picture and playing with sliders to adjust it further. Not to mention that the overall rendering of a lens is much more than its bokeh (although I have no doubt that AI will be able to replicate that and we'll start seeing [insert lens of your choice] "rendering presets" sooner rather than later).

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[pippy]

6 hours ago, pgk said:

...I've taken and seen few photographs where 'bokeh' genuinely adds something to the overall composition and end result. Mostly it is an overused 'effect' which does little to improve images...

^ I agree with Paul ^

There are, of course, exceptions and some members here are very proficient at exploiting the qualities of some very 'fast' lenses when used wide-open but, in general, the whole concept of Boke bores me to tears.

Philip.

[darylgo]

While not a bokeh fan myself the current lens reviewers address it as a feature photographers consider in their buying choices.  

I am reminded that photographers as a group always have their detractors, my earliest recollection was auto exposure built into a camera.  

We're going to see an ever growing ability of computational photography, some will adopt it, some won't, who cares.   

[Henners]

It's just a tool. Saturation slider has been around for years, along with the cropping tool. I mean, you can even turn a colour photo to black and white. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me personally, photography for me is capturing meaningful memories (or something resembling art) and in the process trying to apply skill to it through composition, light, lines etc. I process my photos and would use the tool if I felt it added to the image in the same way I apply colour profiles or highlight recovery. 🤷‍♂️

[01maciel]

I admit that I am a big fan of bokeh. That is (or was?) imho the only difference of good smartphone snaps. I took another photo with my latest Summicron 35mm yesterday at f/5.6 or f/8. My Pixel 7 Pro managed that as well. Which is which? Without peeking into exif data. I can't determine any quality differences on the monitor either. Should I leave the Leica at home now?

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[Ecar]

22 minutes ago, 01maciel said:

Should I leave the Leica at home now?

Not at all, that wouldn't be financially sound: sell it while it's still time. And the good news is that your photography will constantly improve with each new LR version...🙄😉

[David Wien]

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39 minutes ago, 01maciel said:

I admit that I am a big fan of bokeh. That is (or was?) imho the only difference of good smartphone snaps. I took another photo with my latest Summicron 35mm yesterday at f/5.6 or f/8. My Pixel 7 Pro managed that as well. Which is which? Without peeking into exif data. I can't determine any quality differences on the monitor either. Should I leave the Leica at home now?

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The lh secondary bow is missing on the top one! 😆

But I see your point. The top iPhone now costs 1500 $ /€/ £ and produces results that are equivalent to a camera/lens system costing twice that amount. On the other hand, there is the little problem of ergonomics...

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by David Wien

[hansvons]

It took me 20 years shooting TV commercials to learn that there's a thing like bokeh—totally overrated discussion distraction from essentials like content.

[costa43]

On 10/15/2023 at 6:31 PM, Erato said:

You have to be brave to be real in a fake society we live in the future. Because real photo is rare and fake is everywhere.

So tired of fake people and the fake photos. I'd rather be honest than impressive! 

Absolutely. Real books, real cameras, real prints. I choose a tangible existence. 

[sometimesmaybe]

9 hours ago, Ecar said:

I have the leisure of needing to please only myself

best line ive ever read on LUF 

[Ecar]

3 hours ago, sometimesmaybe said:

best line ive ever read on LUF 

Thanks. I was wondering if/when someone would pick it up...

Edited October 17, 2023 by Ecar

[frame-it]

5 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Only for sloppy observers and social media use. When enlarged, cropped and/or requiring fine detail, the twice that amount camera/lens system always wins by far.

haha unless one has a 200MP Samsung S23 ultra

200 MP, f/1.7, 24mm (wide), 1/1.3", 0.6µm, multi-directional PDAF, Laser AF, OIS
10 MP, f/4.9, 230mm (periscope telephoto), 1/3.52", 1.12µm, Dual Pixel PDAF, OIS, 10x optical zoom
10 MP, f/2.4, 70mm (telephoto), 1/3.52", 1.12µm, Dual Pixel PDAF, OIS, 3x optical zoom
12 MP, f/2.2, 13mm, 120˚ (ultrawide), 1/2.55", 1.4µm, Dual Pixel PDAF, Super Steady video

 

[DrM]

On 10/17/2023 at 3:15 AM, frame-it said:

haha unless one has a 200MP Samsung S23 ultra

200 MP, f/1.7, 24mm (wide), 1/1.3", 0.6µm, multi-directional PDAF, Laser AF, OIS
10 MP, f/4.9, 230mm (periscope telephoto), 1/3.52", 1.12µm, Dual Pixel PDAF, OIS, 10x optical zoom
10 MP, f/2.4, 70mm (telephoto), 1/3.52", 1.12µm, Dual Pixel PDAF, OIS, 3x optical zoom
12 MP, f/2.2, 13mm, 120˚ (ultrawide), 1/2.55", 1.4µm, Dual Pixel PDAF, Super Steady video

 

Don't forget the ton of light you need.

[pgk]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

So he consensus is that bokeh is like Sony. Everybody despises it but half of Leica photographers own one.

How about; Sony cameras can deliver great results but their UI is frustrating, and; Leica lenses can deliver great images but the overuse and reliance on 'bokeh' is equally frustrating?

Which, in a way, is where this tread started. If you can't get depth of field right in camera then relying on adjusting it digitally afterwards isn't really going to help much either, most of the ime anyway.

Edited October 18, 2023 by pgk

[frame-it]

 

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[Alberti]

. . . but, this photo of Bokeh does not have any bokeh; and no slider in LR would be able to lift out the important elements, luckily. 🫢

Of course it is not like a phoney-photo where in my experience everything is sharp and distractingly so.

As a test with the New LR Vague Lens Surrogate, original:

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Bokeh Creator:

The background fades but the foreground left bottom not. yes the tool works but I looked at several pictures; the tool really needs a defined sharpness plane to start with. 

Best is to buy a NoctiFlex, I think, for optimum creativity.

Original with 35mm Summicron v1 @ f2.8. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Alberti

[Bronco McBeast]

I am working on a few books, curating my best. Curating means a critical selection with the end viewer in mind.

Unfortunately, each and every photo where the B-hockey seems to be the subject, or competes with the subject, is savagely discarded.
Unfortunately because I cannot tell you how many of those would have been chosen ifffffffffff the B-hockey wasn’t as present. As sorely yelling for attention.

Those images, chosen with my critical curating eye (not my groupie stroking eye) only convey one single message, totally despite what the images actually depict: that it was an amateur attempt at showing off but something that is not very clear. 
 

I will not go regretting having lost so much time and energy bragging about this or that lens’ beautiful B-Hockey, but inside of me, I will. 
 

B-Hockey. 

[DrM]

3 hours ago, Alberti said:

. . . but, this photo of Bokeh does not have any bokeh; and no slider in LR would be able to lift out the important elements, luckily. 🫢

Of course it is not like a phoney-photo where in my experience everything is sharp and distractingly so.

As a test with the New LR Vague Lens Surrogate, original:

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Bokeh Creator:

The background fades but the foreground left bottom not. yes the tool works but I looked at several pictures; the tool really needs a defined sharpness plane to start with. 

Best is to buy a NoctiFlex, I think, for optimum creativity.

Original with 35mm Summicron v1 @ f2.8. 

Yes, I see the default auto mask is not picking it up. A 10 second attempt:

As with all tools, refinement is needed (see refine dropdown in the sub-menu).

Having said that.. for me photo's are "Fake" and "Real". We frame, crop, focus, use DoF, convert to BW, adjust colours, and use a selected medium to record (film/sensor) and paper/screen, etc... They result in an image that we remember as photographer and can partially convey to others. Tools (digital and analog) help to make the image we want to communicate. Personally, I would like to stick to a light "make-up" of the images, and stay away from the plastic surgery approach. It is a grey area, but perhaps a good criterium is that I don't want to betray my memory of what I captured.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lincoln_m]

I find the new features in Lr/Ps helpful if used gently. Lightroom; Lens Blur and Colour Mixer, and Photoshop; Generate AI Fill and Expand, are useful for adjusting images when things go wrong. Generate Fill (remove) is handy to remove unwanted/unrelated hands/legs around people's heads. Lens Blur isn't able to remove/blur unwanted items around heads even if they are further away. Using all these features I was able to rescue an old Provia family photo image and remove unwanted items making it now the image I was hoping for at the time 10 years ago when I took the shot in haste with a skewed visible background.

To test Lr Lens blur I went out (to Avebury stone circle) and took shots with 50mm summicron-M at f5.6 and f2 to see if I could make the f5.6 look like the f2 by using Lens Blur. When you first choose the Lens Blur feature it does seem to work, even on 5000 year old standing stones instead of people, but the effect seems to be much more than F2 perhaps F1.2 or F1, but reducing the effect gets close to F2. You can also adjust the in focus DOF both in front of and behind the subject which is quite clever considering its just a bunch of 2D pixels.

Shot at F5.6 then Lens Blur 20 used to mimic F2.

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[Viv]

On 10/15/2023 at 6:10 PM, DrM said:

Hi

With the new AI feature for bokeh (https://petapixel.com/2023/10/10/lightroom-has-a-new-lens-blur-feature-that-simulates-depth-of-field/), how much do you still go for a specific lens character? Maybe a bit provocative, but with the rise of computational photography, how much value is shifting from lens to post-processing, and are you taking (or do you see yourself) making different lens choices in the future? See an example below.

Best,

Marc

 

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Pic 2 is awful.