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Sell ME and M9M to fund M11M?


AceVentura1986

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Hello, all. I’ve been shooting for fun and occasionally for profit since 2000 on both Canon and Leica systems. Mostly, it’s Canon for profit, Leica for fun and both brands for “art”. My fun and art photography tend to be in BW as that’s my preferred format.

My Leicas are the original ME and M9M. They currently serve my needs quite well but I do worry that they’re getting a bit long in the tooth and will experience electronic failures at some point. FYI, my M8 and Canon 1Ds2 both died on me and at the worst possible time so I do have some experience with the unreliability of older cameras. I’m also drawn to the new M11M as it seems to be an “ultimate” camera for me. 

That’s caused me to think about selling both my Leicas to help fund the purchase of an M11M. I’ve had my two Leicas for around ten years. At 61 years of age and given the capabilities of the M11M, I might shoot that till I’m no longer able to hold a camera. LOL!

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone would care to comment on this? Should I keep what I’ve got, sell both and upgrade, or just keep both and upgrade anyway? Although I can swing the latter option, dropping that kind of money while leaving the other two on a shelf unused rubs me the wrong way. 

BTW, both the Leicas have had their sensors updated to address the corrosion issue. 

Thanks in advance. 

 

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The M10M meets all of my current B&W needs, while my M(9)M sits mostly idle. I’ll trade the latter if and when I want to purchase new Leica gear, which doesn’t include any M11 iteration.  I have no idea what you should do, and have never bought (or sold) a camera or lens based on a forum survey. But what I would do is demo or rent the M10M and/or M11M and figure it out. Living in the US makes this simple, and seems you’re already in the neighborhood of Leica Miami, which can provide good advice and inventory.  

Jeff

 

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I guess the biggest question, which only you can answer, is what is the limiting factor with the current setup? Based on that, I would decide.

I had the m9m, but to me, its buffer was limiting (for one genre I photograph, not for normal usage). So I upgraded to the m10m when the 11 came out and couldn’t be more happier.

But, buffer was deciding factor, not mp (though some space for cropping is a bonus).

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The M9M still carries a degree of mystical sparkle among some Monochrom adherents, giving it, for them, a unique attractiveness. I suspect you'd have no trouble finding a buyer. I don't subscribe to that mysticism, but some do. 

I think you'd be hugely satisfied with either the M10M or the M11M. I've got both, because when I got hold of the M11M I couldn't bring myself to part with the M10M. They're both very special tools in the hands of a practiced user. 

And, well, that's part of it. They will both require practice and persistence to get the most out of them. Your time with the M9M will stand you in good stead with either.

On another point sometimes raised about the M11M, I'd offer the following observation: I've been handholding Leicas since the 1960s, and adamantly do not subscribe to the assertion that the M11M has gone too far in terms of resolution in the absence of Image Stabilization. The challenges posed by the M11M are no more severe than those presented by any high resolution film in any Leica body. You have to learn and practice specific techniques at lower shutter speeds, practices that today may seem either quaint or are entirely foreign to an entire generation brought up with Image Stabilized cameras and lenses. I'm hoping not to ignite anything here, but I feel the challenge is nothing new; neither are the solutions. 

The M10M was truly a landmark camera. The M11M takes it even further. I've had no trouble making prints in the 16x20 inch range from pictures captured by the M10M: prints that'll knock you across the room. They give up nothing to the M11M and its images. The M11M simply permits you to go even further with cropping, or even wilder with print size, with a new degree of impunity. 

For that matter, both of these cameras can produce images that stand up well next to those I've captured on 4x5 inch film. They're that good...

...with practice.

So make your choice with confidence, and then Enjoy!

 

 

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I'll be the lone contrarian here and just say that a photog I know here in NYC had freezing issues with their M11 (pretty much everyone I know has has/had one did) - upgraded to an M11M which worked for two months, then had intermittent LCD screen glitch issues until it bricked. Currently headed to Wetzlar, dealer said 2-3 months repair time.

Personally I wouldn't trade two working bodies that I've relied on for ages for a platform that has been problematic since launch. Get a used, well taken care of M10M - prices are really low, less than 6K. The 3K you'd save in both cash and potential headaches wouldn't really be missed in practical use and as others have said here, the M10M is a superb camera.

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If I would trade my Monochrome1 I would never do that for any Monochrome after it. The M246 is too soft and the others are too digitalistic for my taste. I can’t see any natural beauty in their images. Except for a few old lenses on it perhaps

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When my M9M was on "vacation" in NJ getting a new sensor, I bought an M246 to shoot with.  My thinking was I would sell one of them after the M9M returned.  The M246 was clearly the better camera, but there is something special about the M9M and I could not part with it.  So I still shoot with both.  Were I upgrading I would go with an M10-M, but what I have now does everything I need.  At some point one may fail and be unrepairable, (but so might I).  I'll worry about it then.

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I bought an M9 Monochrom (M9M) last month just to test if the "myth" was true. I compared the images with those I took with my Q2 Monochrom and my M10 (desaturated). I'm genuinely surprised at how impressive the M9M's images are. My next step is to try an M10M or M11M to see if there's a significant difference in image quality that justifies the upgrade. Therefore, I'd recommend trying the M10M or M11M before considering trading in your M9M, especially considering that it appears to be gaining popularity again in 2023. These are just my thoughts on the matter of course

I am more towards the idea to invest on a FLE 35 again to coupled the M9M instead of upgrading.... but again, everybody has it's own leica journey

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  • 3 weeks later...

I swore I'd never sell my M9 Monochrom, however after I acquired the M10M old "Henri" just sat on the shelf.  I didn't mind keeping it around for nostalgia, until one day I realized that someone might actually use and enjoy that camera, and that it was almost selfish for me to hang on to it.  So I sold it to a nice young man who really appreciated it.  I do miss it from time to time, but get satisfaction knowing that it is doing what it was meant to do - make pictures - rather than sitting around as a shelf queen.

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I wouldn't sell the old gear. Post #6 and #7. I am really liking some of the images on the M11 photo pages recently. I often go back over my flies and come across M9M images that really astound me. Its a surprise that I hadn't seen these particular images previously (seven years ago in some cases) The M9M files are very special however they can become "fragile" when trying to edit them like an M10M file. I would gladly stay with the M Monochrom however there is a trade off with functionality and tech advances of the M10M and M11M cameras. I am very happy with the M10M and then keeping the M9M in the drawer until I get an overcast day with dark city streets to shoot.

Having these two Monochrom cameras kind of blocks me from purchasing the M11M because that would mean that two cameras would be in the drawer. The M11M has some desirable functions such as electronic shutter but while I am thinking about all of this, I could be out shooting. If you sell/trade, I hope the transition goes swiftly and you are back in the groove shooting with the M11M. Otherwise you might find some creative change within, and work the existing cameras and a new lens confidently. The "new gear" buzz and expanded abilities of updating is a great experience and one that I believe is a part of being a photographer. If one forgets how to navigate the menu of any one camera and loses a connection with a camera's creative post processing, then one has too many "gears".  I am obviously a dedicated user of the camera and not a collector however it seems that I do have a collection as such.  

Best

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I’m gonna have to rent one for a day. My main concern is being able to shoot at low shutter speeds such as 1/30 without experiencing camera or shutter shake, something that’s more common in high mpx cameras. I tested one at Leica Miami and saw some shake in a few images w a 50mm at 1/45. 

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1 hour ago, AceVentura1986 said:

I’m gonna have to rent one for a day. My main concern is being able to shoot at low shutter speeds such as 1/30 without experiencing camera or shutter shake, something that’s more common in high mpx cameras. I tested one at Leica Miami and saw some shake in a few images w a 50mm at 1/45. 

You might examine your M9-based pics at the equivalent level of magnification and see if there’s any blur from shake.

Jeff

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Tried the M11M yesterday, but just for a bit. I took 4 shots of the salesman and two show what I would ordinarily describe as mirror slap, although that can’t be the case here. I’m guessing it’s shutter slap. It’s not huge, but it is clearly present. Once you see it you can’t I see it. FYI, I shot at 1/45, base ISO, and f/2 on a 50 Summicron.

Gonna need to rent one for a weekend and test it more thoroughly w my 50 Summicron and a 75mm Voightlander I have. The latter may prove interesting. Although it’s a longer FL and thus may exhibit more camera shake, the typical lowest speed would be 1/60 which might offset everything. 

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3 hours ago, AceVentura1986 said:

Tried the M11M yesterday, but just for a bit. I took 4 shots of the salesman and two show what I would ordinarily describe as mirror slap, although that can’t be the case here. I’m guessing it’s shutter slap. It’s not huge, but it is clearly present. Once you see it you can’t I see it. FYI, I shot at 1/45, base ISO, and f/2 on a 50 Summicron.

Gonna need to rent one for a weekend and test it more thoroughly w my 50 Summicron and a 75mm Voightlander I have. The latter may prove interesting. Although it’s a longer FL and thus may exhibit more camera shake, the typical lowest speed would be 1/60 which might offset everything. 

You’re lucky to be able to try the camera - harder in the far off distances where anything you order tends to come from Germany!

I agree on increased motion blur.  I had a Nikon d800e (a nice camera in theory), the shutter wasn’t as well damped as the Leica M shutters and it was very hard not to get motion blur.  I sold it.  Scanning through the threads, you will read of others having a similar experience to you with the M11.  It seems that if you up your minimum shutter speed and focus a bit more on technique, it doesn’t need to be a problem.  You just need to be aware of it.

I have the X2D, which has the same pixel pitch as the M11, only a larger sensor.  Having IBIS is extraordinary - I can take sharp images, ISO 64 with the new XCD 38 V lens hand well past the minimum speeds with my M cameras.  Some of that may be technique, but it is very surprising.  Shooting an APO Elmarit-R 180/2.8 with an adapter on the X2D and electronic shutter requires considerable care (there is a setting in the X2D for enhanced IBIS suitable for this lens).

I’m not an advocate for IBIS in an M camera, but I do think 60MP may be a step too far - I don’t see the point, but then I prefer to chose a focal length and lens suitable for what I want to do, rather than just cropping.  For myself, happy with a 24MP M10-D & SL and an 18MP Monochrom, with M lenses from 21 to 75.

Edited by IkarusJohn
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Can’t speak to any M11 variant (no interest), but my typically smallish prints  from my M10M and M10-R are just as sharp as those using my former M9M and M8.2, at similar settings and conditions.  If the M11 is different, just another reason for my lack of interest.

Jeff

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