Scratches on brand-new lens?

[LocalHero1953]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

22 minutes ago, jaapv said:

New or used, this will never be covered by any guarantee. You need something like Applecare plus or the defunct Leica Passport. 

Perhaps. But an answer to the question might clear up some of the uncertainties in the original sale.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Stuart Richardson]

I still think you should talk to Leica customer service in Wetzlar. Worst case scenario they do nothing to help you. Best case scenario they replace the lens, offer to fix it or give you some sort of compensation. 
 

just as an aside, did you use the lens ar all, or was it literally that you got home, opened up the box and noticed the scratches? Just curious if there was any time for it you have been damaged under your care without you noticing. 

In any case, this story was helpful for me, as it encourages me to be very careful indeed if I ever buy from the Leica store in Oslo…even if it might not be their fault, I don’t think their behavior is particularly confidence inspiring here. 

[earleygallery]

Did you pay the full retail new price or was it discounted at all as it was a 'returned' item?

[Robert Blanko]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb Yihong:

Too long to read: I found scratches on the so-called brand-new lens coating.

 

Dear Leica enthusiasts:

I went to Oslo for my weekend break and bought a Leica 28mm f2.8 Summarit in Leica Store Oslo, it runs by Foto No.

The item I bought was a returned item and they were claiming that it was the only 28mm f2.8 in stock and brand new. I found it a bit doggy and asked again, they told me the policy in Norway is that the item can be returned within two weeks no matter what brand is. I checked the lens with room light and looks fine in-store.

Then I put the lens in the original package and never took it out. I was walking around with my 21mm and 50mm, and after came back to the UK I found there were quite a few scratches on the brand-new lens surface, seen below.

Do you think these are scratches or not? Do they affect image quality? 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

Leica Store Oslo refuses for me to return the item and claims that nothing stops me from examining it in the store, I cannot return it because it was bought from the store not online. They also suggested that I could sell it to the secondhand market at a good price because I told them I got tax refund on this item. 

Do I need to take responsibility for not being able to find the scratches in their store? If the item is defective or used they need to tell customers in advance right? For example, ex-demon, used, etc. If they don't and are found by the customer themselves later, they need to take responsibility for that, not the customer.  Again, I didn't even pull the item out of the original package and it was in my hand luggage(nothing on top) all the time. I don't really see how it can be scratched after purchase.

I'm very curious to know your guys' opinions. If this is my fault, I will just close my mouth and take it. 🙂

 

 

Kind regards

Yihong

 

 

 

 

 

 

No idea what is the pertinent Norwegian law in said respect.

But I guess that it would be very difficult to prove that the scratches were already present on the front element prior to your purchase.

And as you inspected the lens without complaining about any scratches also the seller could reasonably assume that there were no scratches on the front element when they sold the lens to you.

Of course, they could in principle have tried to sell you a lemon, but for a neutral observer (or judge) the likelihood seems to be rather low in view of the aforesaid circumstances.

 

BTW, you bought an Elmarit, not a Summarit.

[Warton]

4 hours ago, Robert Blanko said:

 

 

BTW, you bought an Elmarit, not a Summarit.

For the whole day while reading this thread, I refrained myself pointing this out.

Did OP even know what he bought? Or was this story even true? Sorry I can't help myself questioning now.

[dkmoore]

49 minutes ago, Warton said:

For the whole day while reading this thread, I refrained myself pointing this out.

Did OP even know what he bought? Or was this story even true? Sorry I can't help myself questioning now.

Agreed. I call BS after following the thread. 

[LocalHero1953]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I'm willing to give a story a chance, but I have asked 3 times what it was sold as on the invoice, and what the warranty was - no reply. Case closed for lack of specifics, and conclusions drawn, AFAIC.

.

.

I wonder what a thread would look like if I asked ChatGPT/Bard to come up with a problem and then respond to forum responses? Something like this perhaps? A rather disturbing prospect of the future of online forums.

Edited September 21, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[JTLeica]

On 9/19/2023 at 11:33 PM, Yihong said:

Too long to read: I found scratches on the so-called brand-new lens coating.

 

Dear Leica enthusiasts:

I went to Oslo for my weekend break and bought a Leica 28mm f2.8 Summarit in Leica Store Oslo, it runs by Foto No.

The item I bought was a returned item and they were claiming that it was the only 28mm f2.8 in stock and brand new. I found it a bit doggy and asked again, they told me the policy in Norway is that the item can be returned within two weeks no matter what brand is. I checked the lens with room light and looks fine in-store.

Then I put the lens in the original package and never took it out. I was walking around with my 21mm and 50mm, and after came back to the UK I found there were quite a few scratches on the brand-new lens surface, seen below.

Do you think these are scratches or not? Do they affect image quality? 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

Leica Store Oslo refuses for me to return the item and claims that nothing stops me from examining it in the store, I cannot return it because it was bought from the store not online. They also suggested that I could sell it to the secondhand market at a good price because I told them I got tax refund on this item. 

Do I need to take responsibility for not being able to find the scratches in their store? If the item is defective or used they need to tell customers in advance right? For example, ex-demon, used, etc. If they don't and are found by the customer themselves later, they need to take responsibility for that, not the customer.  Again, I didn't even pull the item out of the original package and it was in my hand luggage(nothing on top) all the time. I don't really see how it can be scratched after purchase.

I'm very curious to know your guys' opinions. If this is my fault, I will just close my mouth and take it. 🙂

 

 

Kind regards

Yihong

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus, I would be really annoyed if I were you, without trying to fuel the fire.

Thats extremely poor form from the Norwegian company, they are selling a 'New' item, they should have accepted the return. Thats really shocking service to be honest.

Their 2 week thing is the same as the UK, within two weeks if its an online order you can return no questions asked. If in store, you dont have the same right, but, a decent company will still allow returns, JL / M&S etc. Or on topic, LCE, Park, Wex...

If I were you, I would get a loupe and try and see if they really are scratches. They wont affect images quality, unless direct light and they flare slightly. But I would probably call Leica, tell them the story in full and ask them to replace the element, IF they are scratches. They appear to be. Of course you will have to pay for Leica to sort it... Unless they're feeling very kind

[JTLeica]

Oh lol... Just read the rest of the comments. I wasted my time didn't I 😆

[LocalHero1953]

3 hours ago, JTLeica said:

Oh lol... Just read the rest of the comments. I wasted my time didn't I 😆

🤷‍♂️

[plaidshirts]

20 hours ago, earleygallery said:

Did you pay the full retail new price or was it discounted at all as it was a 'returned' item?

I'm curious as well.

[Yihong]

20 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I still think you should talk to Leica customer service in Wetzlar. Worst case scenario they do nothing to help you. Best case scenario they replace the lens, offer to fix it or give you some sort of compensation. 

Thanks, I wrote to them yesterday night and they came back to me very early this morning. They told me that the lens is under warranty and Leica Store UK will contact me in a timely manner.

[Yihong]

19 hours ago, Robert Blanko said:

And as you inspected the lens without complaining about any scratches also the seller could reasonably assume that there were no scratches on the front element when they sold the lens to you.

Yeah, no problem with that. I mean I can only describe what happened on my side based on fact. 

19 hours ago, Robert Blanko said:

BTW, you bought an Elmarit, not a Summarit.

Yes! Elmarit not Summarit 🫠

[Yihong]

9 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I'm willing to give a story a chance, but I have asked 3 times what it was sold as on the invoice, and what the warranty was - no reply. Case closed for lack of specifics, and conclusions drawn, AFAIC.

Thanks, there were two prices on their website:

1. 28,099 Nok with 15% discount at 23,884 Nok, Check Link Here. This one was out of stock when I asked, it had been sold.
2. 27,884 Nok I believe, this one was the one I bought at the price of 26,490.02 Nok. The cashier gave me a 5% discount because of the confusion created by their side. My original receipt was handed to the Oslo Customer for tax refund but I have the record from Global Blue, seen below:  

   Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

   Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

3. The confusion about the price was coming from the point that when I asked the salesman initially. I saw on the website that your store is selling new lenses at a discount, is it true? He said Yes, and claimed that they don't do it often. When I decided to buy this 28mm Elmarit, I wanted to confirm the price and asked him again and he said no, the one at a discount was sold. The one I want to buy will be at the original price, shown to me on the screen which is 27,884 Nok I believe. Then I raised the same question to the cashier, he was confused and checked with the salesman and confirmed this lens was returned but brand new, he clarified to me about Norway shopping rules and told me it's common on return and the price would not have any discount, but he could provide me with 5% from the store(FOTO.NO) for wasting my time, this is something he can do.
4. Both the cashier and Leica salesman mentioned this clearly to me: this item is brand new, and the price will not be discounted. Before you asked the price question, I didn't even realise the original price was 28,099 but focus on the fact that it's on discount at 23,884. The price I paid in the end was 26,490.02 Nok.  
5. Leica Wetlar told me that it is under warranty and will contact back soon.

 

 

[Yihong]

15 hours ago, dkmoore said:

I call BS after following the thread. 

I have no intention and no interest in making up any story or saying something never happened. I'm describing my personal experience based on the facts and hopefully, it can be a lesson for myself or anyone else used to careless buying. 

It's your freedom to call it whatever you want. 

[Yihong]

22 hours ago, earleygallery said:

Did you pay the full retail new price or was it discounted at all as it was a 'returned' item?

I asked both the salesman and cashier, they told me the price was the original price with no discount. In fact, because it's a returned item, it was reduced from 28,099 Nok to 27,884Nok, but there's no used label, or discount label n on the website. I just checked now, they removed this item. In the end, the cashier gave me 5% off due to confusion, and I paid 26,490 Nok.

[JTLeica]

1 hour ago, Yihong said:

I have no intention and no interest in making up any story or saying something never happened. I'm describing my personal experience based on the facts and hopefully, it can be a lesson for myself or anyone else used to careless buying. 

It's your freedom to call it whatever you want. 

Ah don’t worry dude it was only because there was no response from you so people assumed it wasn’t serious 

[JTLeica]

Definitely speak to Leica and explain the situation. I think they will help, as some cost but maybe they’ll understand your story

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Rollei35]

3 hours ago, Yihong said:

I asked both the salesman and cashier, they told me the price was the original price with no discount. In fact, because it's a returned item, it was reduced from 28,099 Nok to 27,884Nok, but there's no used label, or discount label n on the website. I just checked now, they removed this item. In the end, the cashier gave me 5% off due to confusion, and I paid 26,490 Nok.

26490 nok before or after tax rebate?

if it’s after tax rebate it’s still too high for a Elmarit.

 I would say a brand new (not open box or returned ) elmarit 28 should cost no more than 24000 nok after tax break or 27000 with VAT

to be honest I found Nordic countries are generally more expensive for everything. I would never buy anything from there that are not essential

but of course UK is also expensive. Go to Eastern Europe next time like Hungary or Czech etc. they have have great prices and even negotiable on brand new products 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Rollei35

[Gn555999]

Is there an update for this case? I can understand where you come from for these scratches, it won’t be easily seen under a normal lightning condition, it can only be discover under strong led light and under certain angle. 

myself come across a few new lens which have such issue, but local Leica store ended up exchange all of them for me, usually with a wait time of usually 6months and above.

from my own observation, all my older lens that is up to serial number 47xxxxx never got such issue before, all the lens is shining and without any fine scratch line even under strong light from multi angle check. However i tend to feel lens that is manufactured under serial number 48xxxxx and above tend to have a lot of these fine scratch issue when out from the box, the brighter lens with larger element is more prone to these issue, what happen to Leica lens factory in year 2022-2023?

Some of the example of The new lux 50mm 1.4 vii

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!