Scratches on brand-new lens?

[Yihong]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Too long to read: I found scratches on the so-called brand-new lens coating.

 

Dear Leica enthusiasts:

I went to Oslo for my weekend break and bought a Leica 28mm f2.8 Summarit in Leica Store Oslo, it runs by Foto No.

The item I bought was a returned item and they were claiming that it was the only 28mm f2.8 in stock and brand new. I found it a bit doggy and asked again, they told me the policy in Norway is that the item can be returned within two weeks no matter what brand is. I checked the lens with room light and looks fine in-store.

Then I put the lens in the original package and never took it out. I was walking around with my 21mm and 50mm, and after came back to the UK I found there were quite a few scratches on the brand-new lens surface, seen below.

Do you think these are scratches or not? Do they affect image quality? 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

Leica Store Oslo refuses for me to return the item and claims that nothing stops me from examining it in the store, I cannot return it because it was bought from the store not online. They also suggested that I could sell it to the secondhand market at a good price because I told them I got tax refund on this item. 

Do I need to take responsibility for not being able to find the scratches in their store? If the item is defective or used they need to tell customers in advance right? For example, ex-demon, used, etc. If they don't and are found by the customer themselves later, they need to take responsibility for that, not the customer.  Again, I didn't even pull the item out of the original package and it was in my hand luggage(nothing on top) all the time. I don't really see how it can be scratched after purchase.

I'm very curious to know your guys' opinions. If this is my fault, I will just close my mouth and take it. 🙂

 

 

Kind regards

Yihong

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Yihong

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[dkmoore]

This one is tough because there are always two sides to every story. 
 

I know that personally, I would have absolutely seen scratches this large. they are obvious. 
 

also, it’s absolutely possible that a Leica store would sell a new lens with scratches. The quality of sales people at Leica stores varies dramatically and often they don’t know squat about Leica gear (I’m talking Leica owned stores). 
 

In fairness to whoever you talked to, they have no idea what you’ve done with the lens after purchase. That said, if I was them, and it was within a couple of days, I’d prob take the return and write it off. 
 

Others with experience in Oslo will know the legal side which I believe you have the right to return but let those folks respond. 

[Smudgerer]

In the meantime, as you say it was a new lens and was bought from a Leica Store, I'd contact Leica / Wetzlar directly in writing/email and report the problems with the lens and store. Get your complaints logged now.

[jaapv]

Agree. The problem is that these scratches are hard to miss on first inspection. No, they will hardly affect image quality but they will affect resale value. However, in this sequence of events I can imagine Leica refusing to refund the lens. In that case, however, you can claim a repair on insurance. 

[spydrxx]

I am amazed you didn't detect the scratches when inspecting the lens in the store. Nevertheless, it is a hard call given you had the lens in your possession for some time after purchase and didn't question its condition earlier. As to whether the scratches will affect performance, I'd hazard a guess that if light was shining directly on the lens you might get some glare. If you were going to keep the lens, you could fill the scratches with a black marker to significantly reduce any induced internal reflections. Personally, I'd just chalk the experience up to a learning experience and be more careful in my next purchase.

[Yihong]

13 hours ago, dkmoore said:

I know that personally, I would have absolutely seen scratches this large. they are obvious. 

I agree, I was freaking blind under the store light. The point is: even though I didn't find the scratches, it doesn't justify they called it brand new and put all the blame on the customer. 

13 hours ago, dkmoore said:

also, it’s absolutely possible that a Leica store would sell a new lens with scratches.

The way they are dealing with customers is more like this: if you didn't find it, oh your fault you deserve it. Just bring it to a camera store, they told me these scratches won't make any difference in image quality which is good. I think I will take it as a lesson.

[Yihong]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

In that case, however, you can claim a repair on insurance. 

That sounds not bad, I will do that next month when I'm in Wetzlar.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Yihong

[Yihong]

6 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

I'd contact Leica / Wetzlar directly in writing/email and report the problems with the lens and store

In Leica Store Oslo, they allow opening new items to have a try and put the label back later, I was astonished. 

[Yihong]

Just now, Al Brown said:

Pretty much every EU store (Norway should qualify as similar even if not in EU) is like this regarding excahnge of bought items. Your only chance of obligatory store refund is when you buy online.

I accept if the item has not been returned or opened before. In the other stores I've been to, all the items were original and not opened, at least in front of me. I think I will just take it, very minimal chance to do anything about that. 🥲

[Yihong]

2 hours ago, spydrxx said:

I am amazed you didn't detect the scratches when inspecting the lens in the store.

That's exactly how I missed shots on the street 🤣

 

2 hours ago, spydrxx said:

If you were going to keep the lens, you could fill the scratches with a black marker to significantly reduce any induced internal reflections. Personally, I'd just chalk the experience up to a learning experience and be more careful in my next purchase.

Many thanks for the suggestions, I will try to repair it later.

[LocalHero1953]

If I was in the country and near the store, I would take it back and make a noise. If not, I might put it down to experience, which has taught me:

• To take a torch when I am going to buy a used lens (which this was, as a return). I would be kicking myself if I didn't see these scratches at purchase.
• To accept that there is a risk buying from another country, because arguing with the seller is just that much more difficult when you're home (different time zone, different language, different laws....)

Edited September 20, 2023 by LocalHero1953

[earleygallery]

Are you sure they're scratches? It's impossible to tell from the image - can you feel them with your fingernail?

Given you admit you inspected the lens in the store it's a difficult one - if they are scratches I think I would send the store an email and copy it to Leica, stating the story up to now, and that you will refer to Leica directly for further advice.

Then go to Leica, explain again and see what they say. They might say it's up to you to resolve with the dealer or they might possibly offer to repair it under warranty, worth a try at least.

[Yihong]

7 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

It is either you have ben stung or there is something you are not telling us.

Not at all, I'm not interested in making stories to make myself feel better, I'm just describing the facts here. If it's my bad then I will just take it. As I mentioned, I put it in the package all the time after purchase. 

[evikne]

14 minutes ago, Yihong said:

In Leica Store Oslo, they allow opening new items to have a try and put the label back later, I was astonished. 

I have shopped in that store a few years ago, I bought a new 50mm Summilux ASPH Black Chrome. But I wasn't allowed to open the box and take a look at it, because they said that if I didn't buy it, they couldn't sell it as new. But maybe they have changed their policy now.

[Yihong]

1 minute ago, earleygallery said:

Are you sure they're scratches? It's impossible to tell from the image - can you feel them with your fingernail?

Yes, you can feel them. I brought it to a camera store, and they told me that those are scratches on the lens coating, but won't affect image quality. I was amazed anyway, the first time I saw scratches on the hard lens coating. 

 

[Yihong]

5 minutes ago, evikne said:

But maybe they have changed their policy now.

Maybe, I don't know. It's my first time there, not a great shopping experience. For sure customer needs to check the item by themselves, like buying a car, if the car has crashed before, it's the deal's responsibility to inform the customer, not the customer to find out later though.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Yihong

[LocalHero1953]

One thing I find puzzling. If sold as new, then I presume it comes with a full Leica warranty. Such a warranty would assume you are receiving a lens that has never been opened, so if there is a scratch, it 'must have come from the factory scratched', and you should automatically get a refund because 'you were the first person to open it'. The store has admitted they opened it and sent it to someone for two weeks, so how can they offer a new Leica warranty? Was it sold 'as new' or actually 'new'? Whose is the warranty?

[Yihong]

10 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

To take a torch when I am going to buy a used lens (which this was, as a return). I would be kicking myself if I didn't see these scratches at purchase.

Exactly, as they told me: nothing stops you from finding them in the store. You need to try to swing your torch at a different angle, otherwise, you're going to miss the beauty! 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[idusidusi]

21 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Pretty much every EU store (Norway should qualify as similar even though they are not in EU) is like this regarding excahnge of bought items. Your only chance of obligatory store refund within a timeframe of 2 weeks is when you buy online.
It is either you have ben stung or there is something you are not telling us. Some leica stores are brilliant and a true bundle of nice, honest people and some are, unfortunately, shady cesspools. Always has to do with people running the store.

Too right lucky I am near the excellent Zurich store. 3 knowledgeable guys and tip-top service and advice always.

[Stuart Richardson]

This sounds really weird to me. If they sold it to you as new (which should be on the invoice), the warranty should cover any defects. If they refuse to do so, I would talk directly to Leica in Wetzlar (immediately, not in a few weeks when you are there) and tell them your story. I imagine they will work harder to help you than this store seems to...or at least they may act as mediator. It certainly does not do their brand very good to go around leaving customers feeling cheated like this.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Stuart Richardson