Am I crazy for wanting to sell my 28mm Elmarit ASPH II to help fund a 35mm Summicron V3?

[28framelines]

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I only have the Leica MP and the 28 Elmarit/35mm Color Skopar, and I’ve just been kind of considering selling the Elmarit and Color Skopar for the 35mm Summicron V3. It just seems to have some of that classic character I really love, while not being as expensive as the 35mm Summilux SR reissue. Don’t get me wrong, I _love_ my 28mm, but I just feel like it’s less flexible when I’m trying to do a bit of everything: Street, portraiture, documenting life’s moments. I can’t seem to get the look for portraits that the likes of Stephen gets with his 28’s, or Joe Greer or Andre Wagner for that matter.

No, I do not have enough money to buy it without selling another lens. Speaking of: what should I be looking at price wise for both: selling the Elmarit (mint condition, comes with box and leather case), and buying a great condition 35mm v3 (with or without hood)?

[wda]

You have a 35mm lens. How is the Skopar failing you . When you can afford it, consider adding a 50mm lens and keep your 28mm.

Edited September 14, 2023 by wda

[28framelines]

7 minutes ago, wda said:

You have a 35mm lens. How is the Skopar failing you . When you can afford it, consider adding a 50mm lens and keep your 28mm.

I think specifically I’d likeable more classic rendering.

[lct]

Never sell a Leica lens my grandmother said I would not sell anything w/o trying the Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2 if i were in your shoes. Couple of snaps with this lens below. FWIW.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-CV-3514-SC-v2/i-cb7xzgQ/0/518e9386/X4/M1000149_sips*-X4.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-CV-3514-SC-v2/i-DWCpJ3W/0/37a83208/X4/M1007890_sips-X4.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-M11-CV-5015-SC-v2/i-V42nB6M/0/40f1edfe/X4/M1005986_sips-X4.jpg

 

[Jeff S]

But then you’d need to change your forum name.  
 

Jeff

[dpitt]

8 hours ago, wda said:

You have a 35mm lens. How is the Skopar failing you . When you can afford it, consider adding a 50mm lens and keep your 28mm.

+1
On top of the 50mm FL being a great alround FL. It used to be in film days more than it is now.

It is also the cheapest FL to get into vintage Leica. Maybe you could even add a nice Summicron 50 v1 (collapsible) or Summicron 50 v3 without selling the Color Skopar?

If you can make the 50 FL work for you, you will get even more character from those lenses than from a Summicron 35 v3 IMO. Not because the 35 Summicron is a bad lens, but because the 50mm F2.0 allows for more play with DOF and bokeh, and character if you stop it down. And the 50mm FL can do almost anything. You would always have the 28mm to complement it.

[otto.f]

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I would strongly advise against that swap, primarily financially. Liking a classic look is ok but it is very easy to get that nowadays. Did you look seriously to how the Summicron 35 iii is so unique that the Voigtländer Nokton 35 ii or the Ultron ii cannot do this, or even better? Images from both at this forum and on Jimmy Cheng’s youtube

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by otto.f

[hansvons]

@28framelines Please search this forum for the Nokton 35mm 1,4 SC VS2. It’s basically a Summilux Steel Rim knock-off, not only in terms of rendering but also in terms of design (vintage double Gauss). It‘s a prime example that not only Leica is able to build truly great glass. Built quality is on par with Leica‘s offerings. A gem of a lens, but only on the Ms. Can be had for 500 EUR new. 

Don’t get the MC version. It’s a compromise made for people who fear flares. You want the full package. I owned the MC version and sold it. 
 

I also owned the 35mm Color Skopar and sold it too because it‘s rendering wasn’t to my taste. Totally see what you feel about it. 
 

But don’t sell the Elmarit 28mm ASPH. I own the Summicron 35mm ASPH, which is Leica‘s most advanced film era 35mm. I use it quite often despite loving the Nokton. There‘s something to its cleanliness and soul that compliments the Nokton very well. It’s superb for no-nonsense crystal clear analogue photography. I often seek that, especially when shooting Delta 100 or 5207. Horse for courses, as they say. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by hansvons

[hansvons]

10 hours ago, lct said:

Never sell a Leica lens my grandmother said I would not sell anything w/o trying the Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2 if i were in your shoes.

What Ict says.

A shot I recently took with the 35mm Nokton 1,4 SC VS 2 at f 2,8. The halation is due to the combination of the Nokton and Kodak's 5222 DoubleX. You won't achieve that look with a modern 35mm.

 

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[chris7273]

Life is short, just try... The lenses you own are nice lenses and they aren't rare lenses, so you will be able to find them easily on the used market if you have some regrets. 

Sell the two, get a nice summicron 35 and use it as your one and only lens for a few months and see if you are happy. If not, easy to sell without a big loss... 

sell, buy, repeat 🙂 

[pippy]

I'm going to be the fifth person in this thread to say that you really should try the 35mm f1.4 Nokton v2 and the fourth person to say don't sell the 28 Elmarit.

Philip.

Edited September 15, 2023 by pippy

[28framelines]

3 hours ago, hansvons said:

@28framelines Please search this forum for the Nokton 35mm 1,4 SC VS2. It’s basically a Summilux Steel Rim knock-off, not only in terms of rendering but also in terms of design (vintage double Gauss). It‘s a prime example that not only Leica is able to build truly great glass. Built quality is on par with Leica‘s offerings. A gem of a lens, but only on the Ms. Can be had for 500 EUR new. 

Don’t get the MC version. It’s a compromise made for people who fear flares. You want the full package. I owned the MC version and sold it. 
 

I also owned the 35mm Color Skopar and sold it too because it‘s rendering wasn’t to my taste. Totally see what you feel about it. 
 

But don’t sell the Elmarit 28mm ASPH. I own the Summicron 35mm ASPH, which is Leica‘s most advanced film era 35mm. I use it quite often despite loving the Nokton. There‘s something to its cleanliness and soul that compliments the Nokton very well. It’s superb for no-nonsense crystal clear analogue photography. I often seek that, especially when shooting Delta 100 or 5207. Horse for courses, as they say. 

Thanks @lct @hansvons @pippy and others. I think my big gripe with the Nokton Classic is the distortion. Maybe it’s flare for some or vignetting for others (somewhat me as well), but for whatever reason barrel distortion really bothers me, and I know that lens suffers from it, unlike the SR Reissue (the MTF shows basically no distortion, and the Elmarit 28 shows virtually none either). My brain interprets it as a catastrophic failure of lens design, even if I know that isn’t true. But if I can notice it in images clearly, it gets on my nerves. I also know that it’s a simple button press in Lightroom/C1, but it still gets to me for whatever reason. I promise you, I’m not searching for a Leica just for the name. If they had a mark 3 that kept the character of the lens and removed the barrel distortion, I would buy it in a heartbeat. 
 

The three lens characteristics I care most about are: character, distortion, >= 0.7m minimum focus throw (I don’t like 0.5m focus lenses, I think this forum knows it by now haha).

[lct]

54 minutes ago, 28framelines said:

[...] for whatever reason barrel distortion really bothers me, and I know that lens suffers from it [...]

My Nokton 35/1.4 SC v2 has more distortion than my Summilux 35/1.4 v2 but i have no experience with the Summicron 35/2 v3. The latter distorts more than the Summilux v2 in my book but are you sure it does better than the Nokton v2 in this respect? Just curious.

Edited September 15, 2023 by lct

[hansvons]

1 hour ago, 28framelines said:

but for whatever reason barrel distortion really bothers me, and I know that lens suffers from it,

To heal you from this problem best would be to watch any cinema-scope flick shot by your preferred cinematographer. 

You know that this issue can easily be resolved in post, other lens-based stuff not. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by hansvons

[Tessar.]

I would advise against it unless you're really sure.  It's a buyers market at the moment and a there are a glut of lenses out there waiting to be sold.  If it doesn't work out for you then you'll lose money three times over.  The V3 isn't a quick seller unless the price is on the low side.   Having said that, there are lenses that will always sell quickly and the 28mm Elmarit ASPH V2 is one of them.  

Selling is a minefield.  The price depends upon how quickly you want to sell?  eBay charges 15% or thereabouts now, so it might be better to sell on commission at a dealers.  However, the advantage of eBay is you set the price are in control.  So you can sell quickly if you price reasonably.  Commission sale can be full of pitfalls, but it can take away the worry of selling privately.  The problem is whether you and the dealer can agree on what it's worth.  The dealer can price based on their cash flow situation and give you a lowball price if their stock isn't moving.  They can also be slow to pay out, so make sure you check their terms of sale.  

Is the V3 in great condition?  If it isn't, it will take an age to sell should you change your mind.  You may get returns, or end up selling for less than you wanted.

I found the Nokton Classic not to be very much like the V3 Summicron I owned, but is is a great lens.  The V3 Summicron I found is quite similar to the V2 Summilux I had, but I find the Nokton Classic different again.

I would look at a Light Lens Lab 8e replica.  you can pick these up for much less than the V3 is going for (or what sellers think they should be going for). and what you lose if you pass it on will be proportionately less.  I have one and think it's excellent.

You could sell both your lenses, get, the LLL and easily get the new 28mm VM Skopar too (and keep your username ).  You'd have the classic look of the vintage 8e and retain a 28mm for when you need it.

[JoshuaR]

I love my 28 Elmarit ASPH V2, but I’ve also used the 35 Summicron v3 quite a lot and it’s an excellent lens. I bought my copy in “bargain” condition from KEH for roughly the price I think I’d get for selling my Elmarit. I think there’s no reason not to swap lenses like as you propose; worst case, you spend a few hundred dollars and in a year’s time change your mind and spend a few hundred more to something else.

I also agree with the basic thrust of your trade, which seems to be that right now your “best” lens is your 28mm, when it should really be your 35mm, because 35mm is a more all-around useful focal length for you. I think it would be very reasonable to trade for the 35mm and then, if you miss 28, buy one of the new ultra-tiny CV 28mm lenses.

I found my 35 Cron v3 to be a very good lens for documenting everyday life. I sold it in favor of a 35 Cron ASPH v1, because I preferred the slightly more modern rendering.

 

[pippy]

2 hours ago, 28framelines said:

...my big gripe with the Nokton Classic is the distortion......barrel distortion really bothers me, and I know that lens suffers from it...

Ah! Fair enough.

I, too, dislike Barrel-Distortion and this was the very reason I did not, myself, buy the 35mm f1.4 v1 Nokton. I did think that Voigtlander had addressed this aspect with the v2 re-design but it seems that I was mistaken. My solution (at the time) was to buy the 40mm f1.4 Nokton as with this lens there is effectively no B-D. I also judged the 40mm to be close-enough to 35mm that - for my shooting-style at that time - it made no noticeable difference.

1 hour ago, Tessar. said:

...I would look at a Light Lens Lab 8e replica...I have one and think it's excellent...

I agree, Tessar, that the LLL would be a great choice. It fulfils 28framelines three requirements in that it has tons of character, no (noticeable) barrel-distortion and a 0.7m MFD.

Oddly enough as this thread piqued my curiosity I've just been playing around in the studio testing for barrel-distortion characteristics of four lenses; the f3.5 Summaron (M) / LLL '8-Element' / v2 Summilux 35mm lenses and the 40mm f1.4 Voigtlander Nokton. The bottom-line was that not one of these lenses would have needed more than +/- 1.0 correction in Photoshop and the LLL 8-E just shaded the Summilux for rectilinearity by a hair's breadth although it was neccessary to pixel-peep at 100% to see any difference.

In 'Real World' shooting these lenses are as close to ideal (in this regard) as could be required.

Philip.

Edited September 15, 2023 by pippy

[spydrxx]

My take is simply, if you really dislike a lens or never use it, go ahead and sell it for something you will use and enjoy. If your present lens fails you, sell it and get something you will like better. Don't go by written reports or what others say, though, test out what you intend, or think you intend, to buy yourself. That way you have a better chance of having a satisfactory longer term result. I've had and sold a number of Leica lenses over the years...some I regretted selling, others not so. The old adage is "Don't sell a Leica lens", but I think there is a caveat to attach, "unless you either really need the money, or are truly trading up". Good luck in arriving at a decision.

[28framelines]

1 hour ago, Tessar. said:

I would advise against it unless you're really sure.  It's a buyers market at the moment and a there are a glut of lenses out there waiting to be sold.  If it doesn't work out for you then you'll lose money three times over.  The V3 isn't a quick seller unless the price is on the low side.   Having said that, there are lenses that will always sell quickly and the 28mm Elmarit ASPH V2 is one of them.  

Selling is a minefield.  The price depends upon how quickly you want to sell?  eBay charges 15% or thereabouts now, so it might be better to sell on commission at a dealers.  However, the advantage of eBay is you set the price are in control.  So you can sell quickly if you price reasonably.  Commission sale can be full of pitfalls, but it can take away the worry of selling privately.  The problem is whether you and the dealer can agree on what it's worth.  The dealer can price based on their cash flow situation and give you a lowball price if their stock isn't moving.  They can also be slow to pay out, so make sure you check their terms of sale.  

Is the V3 in great condition?  If it isn't, it will take an age to sell should you change your mind.  You may get returns, or end up selling for less than you wanted.

I found the Nokton Classic not to be very much like the V3 Summicron I owned, but is is a great lens.  The V3 Summicron I found is quite similar to the V2 Summilux I had, but I find the Nokton Classic different again.

I would look at a Light Lens Lab 8e replica.  you can pick these up for much less than the V3 is going for (or what sellers think they should be going for). and what you lose if you pass it on will be proportionately less.  I have one and think it's excellent.

You could sell both your lenses, get, the LLL and easily get the new 28mm VM Skopar too (and keep your username ).  You'd have the classic look of the vintage 8e and retain a 28mm for when you need it.

You know, I did not consider the LLL 35mm 8e replica. Maybe I’ll take a look at that. As for the rest of your message, you make really great points. Thank you for sort of “walking me back” from the edge of a cliff, as it were haha. And if I still decide “this is what I want” maybe I can save for the bigger purchase.

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[28framelines]

1 hour ago, JoshuaRothman said:

I love my 28 Elmarit ASPH V2, but I’ve also used the 35 Summicron v3 quite a lot and it’s an excellent lens. I bought my copy in “bargain” condition from KEH for roughly the price I think I’d get for selling my Elmarit. I think there’s no reason not to swap lenses like as you propose; worst case, you spend a few hundred dollars and in a year’s time change your mind and spend a few hundred more to something else.

I also agree with the basic thrust of your trade, which seems to be that right now your “best” lens is your 28mm, when it should really be your 35mm, because 35mm is a more all-around useful focal length for you. I think it would be very reasonable to trade for the 35mm and then, if you miss 28, buy one of the new ultra-tiny CV 28mm lenses.

I found my 35 Cron v3 to be a very good lens for documenting everyday life. I sold it in favor of a 35 Cron ASPH v1, because I preferred the slightly more modern rendering.

 

Was the bargain condition version truly bargain, or was it better than expected? And that’s just it, ultimately I do kind of want my “better” lens to be the 35, but maybe based on some of the other comments, I’ll try to hold off on the trade and try the LLL or simply save, and NOT sell the Elmarit.