50 Lux and crop or 75 Apo?

[Kiwimac]

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My two lens kit will probably be my wonderful 35 Apo Summicron and a 75 Apo. 
 

A secondhand 75 in excellent condition has popped up, something not especially common in NZ. 
 

After buying the 35 Apo, I’m short on spare kidneys to sell so the only way I could get the 75 is to trade my 50 Lux and scrounge up the balance. 
 

The alternative is to use the 50 and crop since the M11 gives some latitude for that, to say the least. Then buy a new 75 in probably another year or so. 
 

Any thoughts?

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[IkarusJohn]

I’d be reluctant to sell the 50 ASPH for the 75 APO - I never particularly gelled with the 75 APO, whereas, I’d hate to part with my 50 Summilux.

Why not save up for the 75 Summilux?

[Almizilero]

Or get a Summarit 75/2.5 to test if you like the focal lenght. It's an excellent, completly underestimated lens that does not yet suffer to much from the Leica price explosion. I still can't part with it even though I use the 50 Lux most of the time. Just because it is so good and wouldn't bring much money if I sold it.

[Hans-Dieter Gülicher]

M 10-R plus APO-Summicron 35 mm and 75 mm, APO-Telyt 135 mm, plus Visoflex 1 or 2. If necessary Vario-R 21 - 35 mm per R to M adaptor.

[Ouroboros]

I don't have a 35mm apo-summicron, but I do have a 35mm summicron asph v1 and a 75mm apo-summicron that I use as a pair together.  I like both lenses.

If you're looking at your options from a mainly cropping point of view as you seem to be (I personally would never do that,  it's a frequent 'debate' on here), it would seem more logical to me to crop 35mm images to a 50mm aov than cropping a 50mm image to resemble a 75mm aov.

I'd buy the 75mm apo-summicron (did!), but I've never felt the need for a 50mm summilux anyway because I'm happy with the size and versatility of my ZM 50mm c-sonnar.

As always, it's a personal thing based on what you intend to achieve before, during and after pressing the shutter release.

 

 

 

[jgeenen]

First of all I think the 2-lens-combo 35/75 is a very versatile pairing. Allowing cropping with the M11, it easily covers 35 ... 90mm equivalent with enough room for depth separation. Since I have the 35 and 75mm I find using the 50mm less often. So based on my personal experience and shooting style - if you have a 35 and a 75, you don't need a focal length in-between. I however do keep my 50mm. Why? Because there are situations where I need a wider field of view - usually in cities or in rooms. In these cases the 28/50 combo is perfect for me. In your case, the extra stop of the Summilux 50 might be another good reason to keep it.

To conclude: Especially with the M11, there is no need to have every single focal length "step" physically available. If you don't "need" the faster Summilux 50mm, you might be happy with the 35mm/75mm APO combo.

 Johannes

[lct]

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Depends if you are are a 35/75 photog more so than i am. I am a fan of the 75/2 apo too but i "see" in 50mm so i would keep the Summilux 50 in any case and save for the 75/2 apo accordingly. In the meantime, cropping the 50mm to 75mm is a tempting solution but the digital zoom of the M11 does not offer an 1.5x option, only 1.3x and 1.8x, so that the frame lines of the digital zoom won't match the optical ones of the rangefinder. It could be a problem for me as i'm not good at composing with cropping in mind so that i would compose in RF mode only in this case but you may be more skilled that i am in this matter.

Edited September 13, 2023 by lct

[MaticB]

I have M11Monochrom, and I do not hesitate cropping pictures, taken with wider lens (35 - 50, 50 - 75). I mostly use this camera with Summilux 50, which I consider my go-around lens, despite having 35 APO, 28 Summilux and 75/2.4 Summarit. The other three revolute with M10R. I just like to warn you (once again - despite you already know this), narrow focusing with APO lenses is demanding (I'm glass wearer), even more with 75 APO. Like Almizilero, I would recommend 75/2.4 (2.5)Summarit: It is relatively cheap, focusing is easy and it is not bulky. I had some thoughts before baying it, but now I do not regret doing so. Mine new cost 1600 euros.

 

[lct]

37 minutes ago, MaticB said:

I just like to warn you (once again - despite you already know this), narrow focusing with APO lenses is demanding (I'm glass wearer), even more with 75 APO. [...] I would recommend 75/2.4 (2.5)Summarit.

Different experience here. I have nothing against the Summarits, besides the quality issues of my f/2.5 version (fragile aperture ring), but my Summicron is not more difficult to focus, even at full aperture, and it does better on close-ups due perhaps to its FLE design. Couple of snaps at 0.7m below.

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by lct

[pippy]

2 hours ago, Almizilero said:

Or get a Summarit 75/2.5......It's an excellent, completly underestimated lens...

I agree 100% with the above.

Philip.

[Lelmer]

3 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

My two lens kit will probably be my wonderful 35 Apo Summicron and a 75 Apo. 
 

A secondhand 75 in excellent condition has popped up, something not especially common in NZ. 
 

After buying the 35 Apo, I’m short on spare kidneys to sell so the only way I could get the 75 is to trade my 50 Lux and scrounge up the balance. 
 

The alternative is to use the 50 and crop since the M11 gives some latitude for that, to say the least. Then buy a new 75 in probably another year or so. 
 

Any thoughts?

My two cents...never sell a Leica lens (even less a Summilux 50) 🙂

Edited September 13, 2023 by Lelmer

[Jeff S]

You haven’t said how you feel about using your 50 Summilux ASPH. That would be my first consideration, irrespective of any other lens.  I use and enjoy mine enough that I would not sell or trade it.

Separately, I prefer using 50mm rather than 75mm lenses on an M; different tools, regardless of cropping, for me.

Jeff

 

[RexGig0]

It takes noticeably more attention and time, for me, to rangefinder-focus my APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH than my Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. I almost never capture candid moments with my 75, whereas I can sometimes successfully shoot “ action” with a 50. I would feel handicapped if I had a 75 and a 35, but no 50.

At portrait distance, the depth-of-field/depth-of-focus is noticeably narrower with a 75, compared to a 50. This can be good for creative reasons, but also more challenging, and less convenient.

I am not without bias: In the M system, the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH is my most-favored lens. This is somewhat balanced by my more-long-established preference for short telephoto focal lengths, such as 60mm and 90mm, when using full-35mm-format Nikon SLRs/DSLRs.

I could get along, tolerably, with a 35mm and a 75mm, but, I fear, the 75mm would be relegated to niche status, with the 35mm being used for almost everything that I would have formerly used a 50mm to capture. While this may simplify life, I am not so sure that it would enhance zen-like contentment.

Please do see these as my scattered thoughts, rather than advice.

Edited September 13, 2023 by RexGig0

[wizard]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Kiwimac:

The alternative is to use the 50 and crop since the M11 gives some latitude for that, to say the least.

In my view, this may be the answer to your question. Why don't you just try cropping some 50mm shots to 75mm for some time to see how that works? I am pretty sure you would regret selling your 50 lux asph sooner rather than later, so why run the risk? Personally, I have always considered 75mm too close to 50mm anyway, and have long since preferred a 90mm lens instead of a 75, but of course that is quite subjective. I would NOT sell the 50 lux asph if I were you.

[Stephen.s1]

Dare I suggest trying the Nokton 1.5/75..

Edited September 13, 2023 by Stephen.s1
spelling..

[RexGig0]

If bokeh is a priority, here is a you-tube presentation with bokeh comparisons:

 

[Kiwimac]

7 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

It takes noticeably more attention and time, for me, to rangefinder-focus my APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH than my Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. I almost never capture candid moments with my 75, whereas I can sometimes successfully shoot “ action” with a 50. I would feel handicapped if I had a 75 and a 35, but no 50.

At portrait distance, the depth-of-field/depth-of-focus is noticeably narrower with a 75, compared to a 50. This can be good for creative reasons, but also more challenging, and less convenient.

I am not without bias: In the M system, the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH is my most-favored lens. This is somewhat balanced by my more-long-established preference for short telephoto focal lengths, such as 60mm and 90mm, when using full-35mm-format Nikon SLRs/DSLRs.

I could get along, tolerably, with a 35mm and a 75mm, but, I fear, the 75mm would be relegated to niche status, with the 35mm being used for almost everything that I would have formerly used a 50mm to capture. While this may simplify life, I am not so sure that it would enhance zen-like contentment.

Please do see these as my scattered thoughts, rather than advice.

I find I do largely use the 35 a lot more than the 50. My two most used focal lengths when I used Nikons were the ends of my zooms at around 30 and 70. 

[RexGig0]

3 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

I find I do largely use the 35 a lot more than the 50. My two most used focal lengths when I used Nikons were the ends of my zooms at around 30 and 70. 

You seem to be well-suited to 35mm and 75mm. The 75 APO M is a wonderful lens.

I had noticed that I tended to use my Nikkor 24-70/2.8G ED at about 30 to 32mm, and ~40mm. When I zoomed to 70mm, it was usually a vain attempt to reach farther. This started in 2015, when I was still using a 100mm macro lens, in the Canon EOS EF system, for evidentiary/forensic/crime scene photography, while on duty. Even though I owned my Canon equipment, I tended to use Nikon, the system my wife* and I shared, during personal time. I did not often use 50mm until I added the Leica M system, in 2018, after I retired. The Leica M system can be seen as the system that I used to resuscitate the desire to photograph people. 

*She was/is the more-senior photographer, by far. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by RexGig0

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[Rob L]

Fun fact: the Karbe 75 APO Summicron design is derived directly from the 50 Summilux ASPH in the same way that the Mandler Pre ASPH Summilux 75 was derived from the 50 Pre-ASPH Summilux. I think the rendering of the current APO 75 and 50 Summilux are similar. I have both. The 75 is big and heavy, and flares badly, but a wonderful lens. 50 and 75, and 75 and 90 are so close that with todays 60 Mega-Pixel cameras 75 seems almost redundant. Keep the 50!

[IMAGEPOWER]

Am 13.9.2023 um 12:18 schrieb jgeenen:

First of all I think the 2-lens-combo 35/75 is a very versatile pairing. Allowing cropping with the M11, it easily covers 35 ... 90mm equivalent with enough room for depth separation. Since I have the 35 and 75mm I find using the 50mm less often. So based on my personal experience and shooting style - if you have a 35 and a 75, you don't need a focal length in-between. I however do keep my 50mm. Why? Because there are situations where I need a wider field of view - usually in cities or in rooms. In these cases the 28/50 combo is perfect for me. In your case, the extra stop of the Summilux 50 might be another good reason to keep it.

To conclude: Especially with the M11, there is no need to have every single focal length "step" physically available. If you don't "need" the faster Summilux 50mm, you might be happy with the 35mm/75mm APO combo.

 Johannes

100% agreed! I add the 21 SEM for my favorite 3 lens travel set-up. I own the Summilux 50mm and usually combine it with 21 SEM and Summilux 28mm if speed is crucial.