LTM vs M lenses

[as.photoportfolio]

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Guys, are the LTM lenses as good as an M mount on the Leica M240? It's just that the price difference and the small size makes me scared ahahah. I don't know much about Leica. Thanks for the help 🙂

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[Anbaric]

Leica mostly stopped making LTM lenses many decades ago, with the exception of a few limited editions in the late 90s that aren't cheap. A vintage LTM lens (1930s-1950s) won't be as good as the equivalent modern M lens by standard metrics, though vintage lenses can still give very pleasing results, which you might even prefer for some purposes. If you are talking about the period in the 1950s when the same lens was made in both mounts, then they should be equivalent. There are some modern LTM lenses from third parties like Voigtländer that are excellent, but the latest and greatest, including some that are very competitive with modern Leica lenses, tend to be M mount (though Voigtländer released a 28mm in LTM recently). But if you're buying a modern third party lens, you might as well get an M lens - the LTM lens may not be any cheaper, and you'll have to buy an adapter.

The best thing might be to tell us what focal length you are interested in, whether you'll consider third party lenses, and your budget, and I'm sure you'll get some suggestions. There are also many previous threads you can search for.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Anbaric

[spydrxx]

In some cases LTM lenses may be "as good" as M mount lenses, but in most cases, because they used different glass, coatings, formulas, and were more variable in grinding than modern computer driven grinding methods, often show greater variability and rendition than more modern M mount lenses. So it depends on exactly what you mean when you ask if LTM lenses are as good as M mount lenses. I generally prefer to use LTM lenses on both my film and digital bodies, but use M mount lenses when I am seeking specific rendition not achieved with older LTM lenses. By the way, in the 1950s, often Japanese made LTM lenses outperformed their Leica equivalents. So there are lots of variables. If you really want to get into it, find a copy of Erwin Puts' Leica Compendium...around 400 pages of comparisons across many criteria along with technical data and MTF charts for most pre-2000 Leica lenses.

[lct]

Some LTM and M lenses have been sold in the same time by Leica and have the same optics accordingly: Summaron 28/5.6, Summaron 35/3.5, Summicron 35/2 asph, Summicron 50/2, Summarit 50/1.5, Summarex 85/1.5, Elmar 90/4, Hektor 135/4.5, and perhaps others.

Edited September 13, 2023 by lct

[KFo]

As good as M mount for what?  

My reason for moving to Leica a few years ago was access to an enormous library of lenses spanning decades.  There are many choices and many of them will have various defects that render in interesting ways.  It all depends on what you are after.

[dpitt]

Bottom line is. Technically the LTM lenses are completely compatible with the current Leica M camera's provided you use the apropriate adapter (each focal length needs its own M adapter to bring up the right framelines on the M camera's)

LTM lenses were designed for use on the Leica Barnack camera's that were produced from 1925 to 1954 (and a bit later) until the Leica M camera's came out as a major upgrade of  the Leica camera system. All LTM lenses can be adapted to the M camera's with a small adapter. (not the other way around)

Leica sold LTM camera's and lenses from 1954 to the early 60s side by side, sort of as Leica M being the top models of the range. The lenses of that period could be ordered in LTM and M mount, and were performing the same. After that, Leica only produced M lenses (very few occasional exceptions)

So, yes, Leica LTM mount lenses are as good as their M counterparts, but they are old designs. They can be very good today, if you like a vintage look, and if they are in good condition.

Third party manufacturers continued to produce LTM lenses and camera's (e.g. Voigtlander) until early this century, because of copyright on the M mount in some cases. So these lenses can be very modern (ASPH) in design and performance.

Edited September 13, 2023 by dpitt

[LocalHero1953]

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Don't forget Nikkor and Canon LTM lenses as well as the Voigtlanders. I use a Nikkor 3.5cm and a Nikkor 2.8cm on my Barnacks (I have the 5cm Elmars my Barnacks came with but there are wider choices at similar quality among the LTM lenses of that period.) 

[UliWer]

Well, LTM-lenses only make sense if one intends to use a camera with LTM-mount, i.e. a camera for film, or if one is interested in the results one can get using old lenses with a modern digital camera. If one has no interest in either option LTM lenses only have disadvantages: it's much less comfortable to change LTM lenses, you always need adapters, and the right adapters, which in some cases don't give you all options of a digital M-camera. Since the vast majority of LTM lenses is 60 or more years old you cannot expect that they have the same resolution and contrast as modern ones. The most frequent Leica lenses for LTM mount also have severe ergonomic disadvantages.

There are some modern LTM-lenses by Voigtländer and some very rare and very expensive special editions of modern lenses from Leica in LTM-mount, though they all are offered as well in variants with M-mount. So these modern LTM-lenses only make sense if you want to use them on a camera for film with LTM mount. 

[lct]

2 hours ago, dpitt said:

[...] Leica LTM mount lenses are as good as their M counterparts, but they are old designs [...]

+1 about legacy lenses but some LTM Leica lenses have a more modern design like Summicron 35/2 asph v1 # 11608, Summicron 50/2 v5 # 11649, or Summilux 50/1.4 v3 # 11621. Such LTM lenses are made for film in the first place but they have an advantage on digital as well since hand coding is easier with them through 6-bit coded LTM to M adapters.

[UliWer]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb lct:

some LTM Leica lenses have a more modern design like Summicron 35/2 asph v1 # 11608, Summicron 50/2 v5 # 11649, or Summilux 50/1.4 v3 # 11621.

These are just special editions of lenses originally made for M-mount. So they are very rare, very expensive and only interesting for (odd) collecting purposes. 

[69xchange]

17 minutes ago, UliWer said:

These are just special editions of lenses originally made for M-mount. So they are very rare, very expensive and only interesting for (odd) collecting purposes. 

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I like to use mine

[lct]

1 hour ago, UliWer said:

These are just special editions of lenses originally made for M-mount. So they are very rare, very expensive and only interesting for (odd) collecting purposes. 

Couple of pics of those lenses below for info. As i suggested above, a special interest, for digital users, is such LTM lenses can be hand-coded more easily than uncoded M-mount lenses through 6-bit coded LTM to M adapters. Like the Kipon adapter below for instance. I use it on an Elmar 35/3.5 from 1948, a Jupiter 85/2 from the sixties but also more moden designs like a Skopar 50/2.5 and an adapted Tessar 35/3.5 that i show below as well. My best triplet lens together with the Elmar-M 50/2.8 so far. I have nothing against collectibles personally but, for me at least, these LTM lenses are both keepers and users that shine on both RF and mirrorless Leica and non-Leica cameras. FWIW.

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