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Survey of Interest: Faster Adjustments for ISO, EV and WB


sean_reid

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Wow, your FedEx man as John the Baptist (I 'm not sure what that makes Tony). This transition to digital is really getting to you, maybe you better break out the TriX! ;)

I have a freezer full of Tri-X and an M2. I use them occassionally, but I would like this digital thing to work. But, you're right, something is getting to me.

 

Walt

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I had a dream last night, no doubt inspired by Sean's mysterious but apparently unambiguous defeat yesterday. My FedEx man, Steve, was at the door and handed me the new GR-D from Tony Rose, no box, just the camera, and he was holding it up in the air by the neckstrap. (What Steve usually delivers, in real life, is allegedly repaired Leica stuff.) And then I realized that the Ricoh looked exactly like a GR-D but was the size of the M8 and it had my 28/2.0 mounted on it. I asked him where he got the lens and he was confused and said it just came that way. I had a joyous feeling in the dream. Odd, how the unconscious puts disparate things together and solves problems.

 

That's a wonderful dream, at least at first telling. But then I start wondering what terrible urges made the Ricoh GR-D want to grow so big, carry such an expensive lens, and speak a different language. Did you get to use it, and find out that it had also adopted Teutonic firmware? I hope that this is just a passing phase.

 

scott

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I have a freezer full of Tri-X and an M2. I use them occassionally, but I would like this digital thing to work. But, you're right, something is getting to me.

 

Walt

 

I haven't used film in years and have no plans on going back. In the end Leica is no better or worse then Canon or any other camera manufacturer in this sort of situation. Once the product is out there it's on to the next product in the cycle. You only fix or admit to stuff that could kill sales (like the early M8 problems or the Canon 1D III focus issues). I just had illusions the 'new' Leica was maybe different based on Seans positive early comments.

 

I'll take what I've got - it could be a lot better - but it could be worse, I used a Canon 1Ds for the last 3 years. I'll not waste as much time participating in these discussions. This really was just an exercise in frustration. Time for an internet break.

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Hank-

 

I think this appraisal of Leica is right--but I had the same illusions, though I'm not sure Sean is entirely responsible for that. And it may be that Leica at the beginning of the M8 development was a different company--a less arrogant one--than it is now that they have some money in the bank. Right now, they clearly have little interest in continuing support for the M8, or they'd do the simple things it needs. They are treating it as if the project is complete, and I guess that, too, surprised me. That recent firmware release with nothing but new lens codes was a big tip off, particularly because those new lenses are all focal lengths for full-frame cameras.

 

So, yes, I agree--it's time to stop prowling around the forum wasting time trying to help Leica improve a camera they're not interested in improving. I have an idea that in short order the M8 is going to seem to the M9 what the M5 was to the M6. The M6 was the first time they got that concept right (and it was not because it was a more traditional looking form). If Leica were planning to sustain M8 sales for much longer, I think they'd still be putting more effort into it right now. I, for one, have mixed feelings about having helped Leica out of its financial difficulties with my little $24,000 contribution--I won't even mention my ongoing time on repair problems--only to have them drop this project so quickly. Some people like to assert their savvy cynicism about how corporations and business are supposed to work, but I'm a bit dismayed at the transformation of "Leica excellence" into a pure marketing concept.

 

Walt

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Hank-

 

I think this appraisal of Leica is right--but I had the same illusions, though I'm not sure Sean is entirely responsible for that.

 

I'm not blaming Sean for that. I actually appreciate all the effort he put into it. His advise to Leica has been on the money and in the best interest of photographers, which I would think would also therefore be in Leica's long term interest.

 

I've been debating how best to back up the M8. I'd considered another M8 but I think it will be a DSLR of some sort. I could use the Macro, tilt -shift capabilities for paying work anyway. I don't want 2 M8's when Leica comes out with the next model RF just in case they really get it right on version 2. In that event the M8 could as you say become the next M5 which at the time was Leica's Edsel.

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Current M8 owner.

Big YES to Sean's suggestions.

 

[slight off-topic / rant alert];)

 

These are all good suggestions of Sean's, and I've supported them from the start. It's also true they are only workarounds for poor initial design of the original camera UI.

 

I can understand the reasons some folks feel differently, but not Leica's decision to ignore these requests outright. If a user didn't like these changes as options, he/she could simply not use them. Meanwhile, the professional capability of what is otherwise a unique and potentially very useful tool remain compromised.

 

Some here sniff at Canon & Nikon's ad infinitum custom functions, but those menus do allow each user to tightly tailor settings that make the most sense to them. And because these companies set the de facto pro standards in camera design that's where the bar is set, like it or not. Denying these options somewhat capriciously is very short-sighted by Leica IMO.

 

Leica has its stated reasons of course, but they make little sense from the customer's point of view. One would think some of the new management at Leica might ponder more deeply the road the company was on in the not-too-distant past as a result of previous "blinders on" decision making...

 

T

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fine idea, I would like to see Leica make such changes and more importantly listen to the customers who obviously care about the details.

 

 

- Mark Tomaras

just bought an M8 after 3 years of being leica free (M6 system was sold to buy 1Ds MKII system) And my god.... how did I stay away for so long!?!?

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I'm just a prospective M8 user, but from the beginning I've found Sean's suggested fixes to be the right answer to important user interface problems that never should have made it past beta version.

 

Watching the cooperation between Leica and folks around here has been impressive--enough so that it will be seriously disappointing if they aren't able to make this needed change come together for the M8.

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This seems to have been a very well supported initiative and the thread has quietened down presumably having served its purpose. I sincerely hope that Leica listen and try to implement/effect these strongly advocated changes.

 

If they didn't, the M8 still remains a fantastic camera. However... there are some tremendously ingenious forum members who have investigated and educated laypeople such as myself in the whys and wherefores for the camera. So then I was wondering - what if?

 

In particular..... how feasible it would be to write independent firmware which would offer the user group some say about items for inclusion.

 

Controversial yes, warranty negating too - but surely worth asking and discussing?

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Not utterly surprising considering the way they handled the DMR. They promised upgraded firmware which was over a year late, cancelled the product and stuck the 1000 or so folks who plunked down $5800 + and R9 for the privilege.

 

I am using my M8's successfully and frankly I will be flabbergasted if Leica comes through with what should be upgraded firmware to resolve these operational issues. However I can say with confidence that the M8's are my last purchase from leica. When you read through all of the threads on this forum and realize what hoops people have gone through just to have a servicable ($4800) camera it makes you realize what Leica has done to their reputation and the loyalty of its users

 

JMHO

 

Woody Spedden

 

QUOTE=Walt;409128]Hank-

 

I think this appraisal of Leica is right--but I had the same illusions, though I'm not sure Sean is entirely responsible for that. And it may be that Leica at the beginning of the M8 development was a different company--a less arrogant one--than it is now that they have some money in the bank. Right now, they clearly have little interest in continuing support for the M8, or they'd do the simple things it needs. They are treating it as if the project is complete, and I guess that, too, surprised me. That recent firmware release with nothing but new lens codes was a big tip off, particularly because those new lenses are all focal lengths for full-frame cameras.

 

So, yes, I agree--it's time to stop prowling around the forum wasting time trying to help Leica improve a camera they're not interested in improving. I have an idea that in short order the M8 is going to seem to the M9 what the M5 was to the M6. The M6 was the first time they got that concept right (and it was not because it was a more traditional looking form). If Leica were planning to sustain M8 sales for much longer, I think they'd still be putting more effort into it right now. I, for one, have mixed feelings about having helped Leica out of its financial difficulties with my little $24,000 contribution--I won't even mention my ongoing time on repair problems--only to have them drop this project so quickly. Some people like to assert their savvy cynicism about how corporations and business are supposed to work, but I'm a bit dismayed at the transformation of "Leica excellence" into a pure marketing concept.

 

Walt

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So if Leica has decided not to add the functionality for such a well supported improvement, it makes my suggestion of privateer firmware all the more relevant.

 

If their financial status has been overturned by the M8, then reinvestment is essential in order to encourage customers to stay and new ones into the fold. Offering progressive improvements and listening to users is welcomed. Adobe Lightroom, Capture One V4 beta etc have been improved and become better products for all by employing the user as test bench and listening to feedback. Leica seem myopic in comparison.

 

Another thought - did anyone ask if this could be an 'upgrade' for which owners could pay Leica. This initiates two tier product which would be controversial - but less so than going it alone.

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So if Leica has decided not to add the functionality for such a well supported improvement, it makes my suggestion of privateer firmware all the more relevant

 

I don't think that reverse engineering the firmware (I can't imagine Leica releasing the source code into the public domain) and then successfully developing it is a trivial exercise. It ain't going to happen.

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