a.noctilux Posted August 16, 2023 Share #21 Posted August 16, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) I understand the romance of wanting same period lens as body. 👍 But we are more than fifty years from those days. 10402 at USD 324.00 was a nice price, but expensive enough reasonable people who wanted to take pictures with the M did choose the plain silver M4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 Hi a.noctilux, Take a look here Early M4 black paint lens selection. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
TomB_tx Posted August 16, 2023 Share #22 Posted August 16, 2023 Just confirming the only black M lenses listed in the mid '68 Leitz USA catalog were only 28mm Elmarit, 35 Summilux, 50 Summcron (ver 2 #11117), 50 Summilux, and 50 Noctilux. The owner of the camera store I worked at part-time had just received his own black 35 Summilux, and it was stunning. By the January '68 catalog they also had the black 50 Summicron ver 3, #11817 - which is the lens I bought then and still use. The catalogs don't specify black as being paint, chrome, or anodized. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernstk Posted August 16, 2023 Share #23 Posted August 16, 2023 My vote would be for the Summilux 35 v2, in black., as mentioned earlier. I owned a black paint M4 for a couple of years and the pairing looked great, as well as performing extremely well. Ernst 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 16, 2023 Share #24 Posted August 16, 2023 37 minutes ago, TomB_tx said: Just confirming the only black M lenses listed in the mid '68 Leitz USA catalog were only 28mm Elmarit, 35 Summilux, 50 Summcron (ver 2 #11117), 50 Summilux, and 50 Noctilux. My German Leitz catalog of September 1968 lists also 21/3.4, 90/2, 90/2.8, 135/2.8 and 135/4 M lenses in black. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidjohndavid Posted August 16, 2023 Author Share #25 Posted August 16, 2023 15 hours ago, Stein K S said: Shouten-select have a regular black Leitz Summicron 50mm 3rd (11817) mint- inkl hood 12585 for euro 1350,-. Produced in 1973. Not what you are wishing for, but still… That’s a beautiful lens and a potential future option. After looking around, I’ve found 6 lenses so far that are from either 1966 and 1968. Apparently 1967 is a low production year at 17k total units/lenses produced, compared to 80k in 1966 and 58.7k in 1968. I’ve reached out to a couple dealers… Here’s to patience and good luck! Lol. I just found a Topps Chrome refractor Lebron James Rookie card in a stack of random playing cards yesterday, so I’m feeling hopeful that my luck will keep running. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 16, 2023 Share #26 Posted August 16, 2023 18 minutes ago, Davidjohndavid said: ...I just found a Topps Chrome refractor Lebron James Rookie card... I have absolutely no idea of anything about what you wrote here means but I wish you good fortune in your Lens-Quest! Philip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidjohndavid Posted August 16, 2023 Author Share #27 Posted August 16, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here’s a couple snaps of the camera and lenses. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/380924-early-m4-black-paint-lens-selection/?do=findComment&comment=4836941'>More sharing options...
Davidjohndavid Posted August 16, 2023 Author Share #28 Posted August 16, 2023 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/380924-early-m4-black-paint-lens-selection/?do=findComment&comment=4836942'>More sharing options...
Davidjohndavid Posted August 16, 2023 Author Share #29 Posted August 16, 2023 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/380924-early-m4-black-paint-lens-selection/?do=findComment&comment=4836943'>More sharing options...
Davidjohndavid Posted August 16, 2023 Author Share #30 Posted August 16, 2023 20 minutes ago, pippy said: I have absolutely no idea of anything about what you wrote here means but I wish you good fortune in your Lens-Quest! Philip. Lol. It’s basically the holy grail card of this generations basketball card collectors. One sold for six figures a couple years ago. The markets shifted a downward recently, but it’s probably the equivalent to a rare black paint lens in very good condition. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidjohndavid Posted August 16, 2023 Author Share #31 Posted August 16, 2023 And thank you Mr. Pippy! Your comment was insightful and very helpful. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted August 16, 2023 Share #32 Posted August 16, 2023 Which lens is on the M2? I’m guessing it’s a Super Angulon but wanted to be sure. The little 3.5 Summaron is a fun lens to use. I had the LTM version and always enjoyed the images. That’s quite a find considering how long Lebron has been playing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 17, 2023 Share #33 Posted August 17, 2023 28 minutes ago, Davidjohndavid said: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! All of your kit, obviously, is wonderful so congrats on your on-going collection and it's interesting to see you have a C. 1955(?) 35mm f3.5 Summaron. To this day these are still (IMO) greatly underestimated lenses. Don't know why apart from 'Bragging Rights'? Here, FWIW, is my similar 1954 example on the M Monochrome; Philip. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidjohndavid Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share #34 Posted August 17, 2023 25 minutes ago, madNbad said: Which lens is on the M2? I’m guessing it’s a Super Angulon but wanted to be sure. The little 3.5 Summaron is a fun lens to use. I had the LTM version and always enjoyed the images. That’s quite a find considering how long Lebron has been playing! Yup, it’s a Super Angulon. I’m looking forward to start shooting with the M2 with it. It’s absolutely nuts that I had it and didn’t know for all these years. It’s been sitting in that stack for 20 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidjohndavid Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share #35 Posted August 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, pippy said: All of your kit, obviously, is wonderful so congrats on your on-going collection and it's interesting to see you have a C. 1955(?) 35mm f3.5 Summaron. To this day these are still (IMO) greatly underestimated lenses. Don't know why apart from 'Bragging Rights'? Here, FWIW, is my similar 1954 example on the M Monochrome; Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Philip. That is a stunning camera! Absolutely beautiful. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erato Posted August 17, 2023 Share #36 Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Davidjohndavid said: That is a stunning camera! Absolutely beautiful. Lovely collections!!! This might be another ultimate fit to your black paint, good luck. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/380924-early-m4-black-paint-lens-selection/?do=findComment&comment=4836975'>More sharing options...
Davidjohndavid Posted August 17, 2023 Author Share #37 Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Erato said: Lovely collections!!! This might be another ultimate fit to your black paint, good luck. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Thank you for the advertisement reference! That would be an amazing combo, but it’s out of my price range. There’s a few year correct lenses on eBay right now and the average price is around $40k. My wife would flip out, no matter how I framed it 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidjohndavid Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share #38 Posted August 22, 2023 After quite a bit of research and searching threw countless eBay auctions and private collections, I’ve come to the conclusion that there’s a mystery at hand and I’m a bit lost. Utilizing Ken Rockwell’s website and a couple other internet references, it’s stated that both the black Summilux 50mm 1.4 v2 #11114 and Summicron 50mm f2 #11817 were introduced in 1969. I’ve seen many examples from both of these models being sold with serial numbers dating from early 1968 and a couple Summilux 50mm 1.4 from late 1966. Here’s are examples of a 1966 Summilux and an early 1968 Summilux… They look identical to me and identical to later models. There’s obviously black paint 50mm Summilux’s from 1966, but they look different. Does anyone have any thoughts on this example from 1966, serial number 2220994? And besides black paint has anyone seen a 1967 50mm Summilux or Summicron? The least expensive 50mm lens from 1967 that I’ve found so far is €25k, a 50mm black paint 8-Element Summicron from Jo Geier… Actually, that’s not true. I’ve seen one one chrome 50mm from 1967… I can’t remember if it was Summilux or Summicron though. On a side, but related note, I contacted the folks at Kanto for an estimate to paint and CLA my Dual Range Summicron with goggles and hood and they quoted about $1k and about $600 to pain and CLA my early Summaron 35mm and 18-24 months lead time. I think I’m going to send the Summaron off to them. It’ll look really neat and unique in black paint and would make for a nice look for an inexpensive price point. This has been a fun exercise so far. Thank you everyone for the help thus far. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/380924-early-m4-black-paint-lens-selection/?do=findComment&comment=4841111'>More sharing options...
Davidjohndavid Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share #39 Posted August 22, 2023 Here’s a couple pics of early 1968 50mm Sumicron 11817’s. One is listed as V2 and the other V3. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/380924-early-m4-black-paint-lens-selection/?do=findComment&comment=4841124'>More sharing options...
grahamc Posted August 23, 2023 Share #40 Posted August 23, 2023 (edited) Hi @Davidjohndavid, I can't help on all of the questions but can say (although probably you already know it) that these black summicrons are exactly the same lens, people just use different naming conventions. I think the confusion stems from the fact that some dealers consider the earlier collapsible summicron and the rigid version as v1 collectively. Meaning that the first black chrome one (that you have pictured) becomes v2 . I (and most I think) prefer to think of collapsible as v1, rigid as v2 and then the one you have pictured is v3. This seems most common but of course from time to time you see different , or even incorrect, naming of any lens . By the way, this v3 (as I call it ) that you have pictured is a brilliant lens, I love mine and have all the 50 crons from v2 rigid up to the current version. If you do choose to get a lens painted by Kanto I would highly recommend it - not only their repaint work is brilliant but after their overhauls/CLA the lens will fee fantastic, I recently had one done. if you do then better to choose a lens that is brass, as they will strip the silver chrome and paint over brass . You are probably aware they can also apply a worn look if that kind of thing appeals to you, showing brass through the paint . Give them a heads up that you want the finish to match your M4 as they have four different black paint choices. Hope some of this helps . Edited August 23, 2023 by grahamc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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